VOR yacht aground!!

Seajet, I don't think anyone here was judging. What I said (that you jumped on) was that I didn't see anything other than human error as a cause here. And I still don't - and seemingly neither does the Skipper! What we don't know yet is what the mistake was, and who made it.

For what it's worth I expect the explanation (if we ever get one) will be very simple. The sort of mistake we all make from time to time and get away with, but that has bitten them hard this time.
 
Seajet said:
I was trying to say, don't go finger pointing yet, give the guys - including the skipper - a break.

They have been through a huge trauma, are still in severe shock - a truly horrible, insiduous thing, I've tried it and didn't like it, more to the point I was useless to say anything sensible for days afterwards - ( or ever according to some on here :) ) and I suspect the skipper especially might have a version of ' survivor guilt ' which is completely unwarranted but hits very hard.

Give the guys a chance, we all sense there's a lot more to this story than someone spilling coffee on a chart, a lot of systems have failed to get that result.
Click to expand...

Wind your neck in a bit SeaJet :)

I wasn't "pointing the finger". I was quoting the skipper!
Prior to his quote on the official VOR website, this thread was speculating as to wether it was electronic or human error.
The skipper has confirmed it was human error.
Few of us on here will have never made a mistake while navigating.
I certainly have and ran aground as a result, so of course I'll give him a break
 
You haven't read what I said, accidents like this are always one little thing, then another, domino effect.

The skipper is right to stand up, and as I tried to say ' survivor guilt and shock ' are relevant - but I suspect he - and the navigator - will be proven as much victims as the poor boat was; systems failure, not particularly human.
 
Seajet said:
The skipper is right to stand up, and as I tried to say ' survivor guilt and shock ' are relevant - but I suspect he - and the navigator - will be proven as much victims as the poor boat was; systems failure, not particularly human.
Click to expand...

So why is quoting what he said, with no further comment or speculation, worthy of such rudeness out of the blue? Bit early for drinking, wasn't it?

Pete
 
Seajet said:
They have been through a huge trauma, are still in severe shock - a truly horrible, insiduous thing...
Give the guys a chance, we all sense there's a lot more to this story than someone spilling coffee on a chart, a lot of systems have failed to get that result.
Click to expand...

Fully agree. First, nobody has been injured and the environmental damage appears to have been contained; the outstanding "investigation" is therefore a private matter between Vestas and its crew. From a corporate perspective Vestas has only burnished its "good citizen" image by minimising any environmental damage and standing by its stricken crew.

What that leaves is a "mistake", and mistakes can be the very best of teachers; they lay wide open unforeseen risks and gaps in our understanding of things. These in turn arouse our imaginations, inform us of questions to ask, some of which lead to lines of enquiry such as the plotter-boys ^^^^ are engaging in.

Almost every human success is built on the ashes of failure; in that spirit us fellow sailors should hope that Vestas is generous enough to publish a detailed account of what came to pass, so that we might avoid the same fate one day.
 
Last edited:
flaming said:
I suspect different. But we shall have to wait and see!
Click to expand...

I suspect I agree with you. Not a single word or suggestion anywhere of any "systems" failures, and a direct quote from the skipper saying it was human error and he takes responsibility.

That is not pointing fingers. That is stating the facts as we currently know them.
 
Seajet said:
' Stating the facts as we currently know them ' is otherwise known as armchair conjecture; I suspect a few systems have failed well before humans.
Click to expand...

Difficult to know what to say to someone who appears to be telling the skipper that he was wrong to call it human error and take the ultimate responsibility. To quote him again.

"It's clear that human error is responsible for the shipwreck, there's no avoiding that. And as skipper, I take ultimate responsibility."

I can't see how me, BBG and affinite saying "They are saying it's human error" is armchair conjecture, yet you saying "I suspect systems failure" isn't....?
 
Absolutly nothing wrong with armchair conjecture. It's an internet forum not a court of law. When we have to "keep our traps shut" it's time for me to leave.
Really getting sick of all these posts that say we shouldn't say anything until we know the facts. A highly sophisticated racing yacht with experienced well paid crew went aground, that's the facts.
 
Last edited:
So far we have the skipper saying its human error and he takes responsibility, and we have no evidence systems failures. My sympathy to the crew and my respect to skipper for his post incident stance.

People makes mistakes and systems fail, but not necessarily simultaneously. Ther is no great need for one to follow the other, or to seek to divert attention away from ones own mistakes by blaming system failures. Just as there is no need to start blaming people for a system failure. Much better to learn from the mistake and move on.
 
tudorsailor said:
Footage of the crash now on the YouTube site. Lots of swearing. No lifejackets in evidence

Have a look at http://youtu.be/FoE51gme6no?list=PLWO8hWaPuxmopo7LcKloejXgDHUy19mRx

TS
Click to expand...

Good footage.

I am not a blue water sailor, so a few questions.

Crew were looking overboard before bang, had they heard breakers? Or had they already hit something?

What should one do if one hits something. If you KNOW it is land (reef) is it possible and sensible to throw in a reciprocal course? Or did they think it was a mammal and hopeitwas a one hit only?

Glad everyone was ok anyway.
 
TimBennet said:
"Give them a break and keep your unuseful trap shut."

.
Click to expand...
Quite. Here's some sensible rational advice given by some other chap whose name escapes me now on another topic that for some unknown reason just degenerated into rudeness..
snipping<<I have only been reading this thread now after the dust has settled and it strikes me as a perfect example of why, after all, manners should persist, and we might gently say ' erm, are you sure about that ? - instead of a triumphant " See, Nobody knows as much as I do, you're a berk ! "

In fact everyone was trying to help - and everyone was innocent of ' blame ' - but forum point-scoring got in the way.>> snipped.

Would that manners should persist......too much to hope for I guess but damnably irritating none the less.
 
Spyro said:
Absolutly nothing wrong with armchair conjecture. It's an internet forum not a court of law. When we have to "keep our traps shut" it's time for me to leave.
Really getting sick of all these posts that say we shouldn't say anything until we know the facts. A highly sophisticated racing yacht with experienced well paid crew went aground, that's the facts.
Click to expand...

I sometimes browse pprune which is the professional pilots rumour network. Some people on there don't see the irony of criticising others for conjecture!
 
The last guy you want to send to investigate an incident, is the guy who knows what happened.

One of the hardest things is approaching the subject with an open mind. Experience has shown me when I think I knew the cause. I am almost always wrong.

Some times even the best people can make the worst mistakes.

I respect the Skipper for his statement. He appears to be a stand up guy. It’s not uncommon for stand up guys. They take it on themselves often harder than they deserve. For many it can be tough to get back on the horse.

Others like a certain Italian blame everyone and everything else.

The truth is usually some where in between. Although the media and public like to have someone to blame. It seldom has any benefit in preventing future incidents.

There is seldom just one error or one failure which leads to an accident. Much more likely there was is a chain of events some of which may have been errors or failure of humans and or equipment.

Ultimately for a professionally crewed vessel. There should be a system to catch the inevitable errors fallible humans make on a routine basis. Along with a system to back up the failures which may occur with equipment.

Fortunately this incident took place without loss of life or serious injury. Probably, due in part to an effective emergency response by those on board.

A MAIB report is unlikely. Its not a British vessel. There were no serious injuries. The flag state Denmark would have responsibility for such a report. Without injury on a privately owned yacht they will most likely defer to the race organisers and owners.

The high profile of the event will probably result in a report from the organisers with recommendations for the future. Hopefully they will look at the whole system for lessons to be learned. Rather than just blaming a human.
Which might be interesting to read and some of which may have relevance to the ordinary recreational sailor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top