VOR yacht aground!!

dom said:
On a serious note, I fully agree. I've personally witnessed people, including me, getting into a strange tunnel vision mode where one can skillfully operate for long hours under stress, but are unable to cope with something new. You think your're fine and dandy until faced with a simple nav or tactical task, which you then completely screw up; vector calculations are particularly dangerous.
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+1 Some years ago, Stugeron Steve* (remember him!) and I got ourselves into a right pickle coming into Cherbourg after an overnight passage where we hadn't slept, and were using traditional nav supplemented with a handheld GPS..... the lights were all 'wrong' and we couldn't work it out.... turns out that in our state of tiredness, we were adding rather than removing minutes from the degrees on the chart (or vice versa - can't remember!)ie working as if the other side of the meridian, and were somewhat further west than we thought...

* For those with a longer forum track record, you'll be pleased to know that I swapped emails with Steve a few weeks ago, and he's well and happy.
 
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Seajet said:
......

I'd been steering straight for Selsey rocks, being so tired I had seen what I wanted to see.

I've had this a few times since but never so badly, it's a really dangerous state and quite easy to get into.
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+1 Almost all of my embarrassing mistakes or near-misses have been because of that same tiredness-induced failure to read what is obvious all around me.

Have done the wrong-lights thing, and at one point (probably my most cringe-worthy example in many years) I completely failed to understand why I couldn't tack a boat....

I'm sure there's a whole thread waiting to be written about hazy fatigue-induced nonsense aboard boats.
 
andymcp said:
I'm sure there's a whole thread waiting to be written about hazy fatigue-induced nonsense aboard boats.
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I'd certainly second that suggestion ...and for now we're all in general agreement about the risks posed by fatigue impaired cognitive functions. But don't be surprised if you're new thread ends up stranded on a WAYPOINT/MAB/AWB/GPS/CQR beach somewhere, and that no combination of SPADEs, CHAINs and ROPEs can pull it free!
 
andymcp said:
+1 Almost all of my embarrassing mistakes or near-misses have been because of that same tiredness-induced failure to read what is obvious all around me.

Have done the wrong-lights thing, and at one point (probably my most cringe-worthy example in many years) I completely failed to understand why I couldn't tack a boat....

I'm sure there's a whole thread waiting to be written about hazy fatigue-induced nonsense aboard boats.
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While sailing from Sicily to Italy overnight, I constantly worried about Tuna nets that I had read about in the Pilot. I saw a group of red lights ahead that I convinced myself and SWMBO marked the dreaded nets. To add to the confusion a group of fishing boats headed towards me. I nearly turned into the path of the fishing boats in my effort to avoid the Tuna nets. The lights were the powerful red lights on windturbines on the hills far in front. Duh! Turned away from the fishing boats

Tudorsailor
 
tudorsailor,

well it always amuses me when people who've seen UFO's say " it was 100' high " or it was 30' diameter " - how do they know that then if they aren't familiar with the item or it's dark - could be walnut sized 1' away or the size of a house a mile away !
 
Seajet said:
tudorsailor,

well it always amuses me when people who've seen UFO's say " it was 100' high " or it was 30' diameter " - how do they know that then if they aren't familiar with the item or it's dark - could be walnut sized 1' away or the size of a house a mile away !
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I am a bit tired. Are you telling me that the lights were not from a Wind Farm but from a UFO? :culpability:

TS
 
I see lots of confessions of short handed crews making mistakes when tired which is entirely understandable, I have done the same myself. However, this is a fully crew race yacht, with a supposedly professional skipper. If the crew was so tired as to make a near fatal mistake, how was the skipper managing his crews performance and tiredness? They still had a long way to finish that leg. What night orders had been passed down the watch keepers? What passage planning was in place? What hourly positions were being recorded? Who was monitoring the course and the projected course?

My sympathy to those crew who were paying for the race experience, but not to the skipper who must be responsible for the management of the vessel.
 
pyrojames said:
Sorry my error. The point remains the same, although perhaps some of the crew should have been able to recognise the situation, the skipper is ultimately responsible.
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No probs, it's an easy mistake to make.

It's also easy for me, in the comfort of my internet armchair, to point out that these were professional sportsmen, getting paid to do it, without significant risk to the general public.

As an amateur sailor, sometime racer, and *always* '2nd Nav', I'm still interested in Leasons Learned.
(Include standard MAIB blurb about not attributing blame, but preventing re-occurrence, etc)
 
Also, as far as I know fatigue is just a theory being bandied about on this forum ( a good theory mind ) - anything might have happened.

I do have to say though I was quite surprised to hear a boat like that in a race like that only had 8 crew ( + reporter ).

On an aside my Dad casually mentioned today that in the war the escort carrier he was an arcraft engineer on - HMS Khedive - used to trundle around inbetween these islands, often in gaps of 100's of yards, natives & huts in plain sight; I wouldn't fancy navigating that around there at night with the nav aids of the time !
 
As everybody knows I have a pathological fear of racing fleets, but the VOR and Vendée Globe are two races I follow on the interweb as they are a far bigger than charging round cans shouting water and looking grim.

It looks like a simple trust in technology and accuracy of the data that caused the error! If the reports are right and the last survey was about 1850 they should have given it a much wider berth.

Listening to the interviews on the Volvo website there is no indication of fatigue, these are very fit guys and they have not been at sea that long.

I better check my virtual boat in the race...
 
Camelia said:
It looks like a simple trust in technology and accuracy of the data that caused the error! If the reports are right and the last survey was about 1850 they should have given it a much wider berth.
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Did you read Evans's post #10? It shows the wreck on the reef and the other yacht in the lagoon, just as they were in reality. So the chart was accurate, the screwup was elsewhere.

Pete
 
prv said:
Did you read Evans's post #10? It shows the wreck on the reef and the other yacht in the lagoon, just as they were in reality. So the chart was accurate, the screwup was elsewhere.
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Good point Pete, still needed a wider berth :rolleyes:
 
roblpm said:
Will prove to many on here the folly of relying on any technology invented since 1900.........
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Folly: defined as a lack of good sense; foolishness. Technology has nothing to do with it.

Going on a sailing boat to race fast around the world is: a lack of good sense; foolishness :-))))
 
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