Volvo TAMD61A (306hp)

[NigelChattin]

Hi,
Does anyone have any experience with TAMD61A engines specifically the injector pumps?

My engines are 300rpm down at top speed. They rev out of gear very well, there's no issue with compression, and they don't smoke excessively so I’ve no concern with a lack of air supply; but they just run out of steam at the top end. Load seems to make no difference however both pumps have been removed and I assume 'reconditioned' in the past (you can see where they've been labelled up) and I'm concerned they haven't been set up properly.

Does anyone have any experience with this or any pearls of wisdom? How do I make them go?

 

[stuartw]

What are you assuming is top revs? Typically the max revs under load is around 2800-2900 . If you are saying they cannot get beyond 2500, then your hull may be highly fouled, or there is not enough air getting in, both of which would normaly exhibit lots of black smoke. Depending on hull size, you should be able to open the throttles to max at low speed, and make the props cavitate, with max revs being achieved fairly quickly when the hull is on the plane.

What you haven't said, is this a new situation, ie you have seen higher revs, or you have just acquired the boat and are trying it out.

They are very reliable, high torque engines, so am suprised at low revs.

Oh, just a thought, fuel blockages, ie in dirty primary and secondary filters, is another possibility.

 

[volvopaul]

Hi ive had these engines in a princess 388 and now have the 62a 340 hp version in my princess 410, there great engines, both boats revved to 2900 and both give 30 knots in a cross tide situation, tell me what boat are they in, what gearboxes do you have and what ratio? there are many causes of under revs mainly due to poor fuel supply, poor injector nozzles and fuel return valve issues. I see from your profile you say you have a princess 37, I dont think these engines were ever fitted to this boat, if so then it should fly!!! Oh and yes I can set the pump timing.

 

[NigelChattin]

Hi,
I'm assuming top revs to be 2800 and I'm only getting about 2500. They're in a Princess 415. I've had the boat almost 2 years but she's never achieved more than 2500, regardless of how heavily loaded she is or dirty the bottom is (it doesn't seem to make any difference to the revs, we just loose a knot or so as we load her up). It's never really been a problem because she cruises comfortably at 18-20 knots, but I'd just like to have a bit more ability at the top end.

I've cleaned the tanks (an interesting job!) replaced the fuel pipes, and replaced all the filters, so I'm happy there's no restriction to the injector pumps and she isn't black smoking so I didn't think it was a lack of air. Gearboxes are MG 2.54:1 (I think) and she has the original props.

There appears to be a stop on the injector pumps which prevents the throttle arm going any further, would adjusting this allow the pumps to supply more fuel or is there something more complicated inside?

Any thoughts???

 

[Divemaster1]

Having done all that, and got clear airfilters there are a few more things you can do to check things out....

Assuming your engines are in tune and good shape, run them up to working temperature, then rev them up to max no-load RPM (which probably should be 150 RPM over max RPM at load).

If you achieve this, then it probably is your props .... (do you have black smoke, or traces of this on your stern)..

If not, then it could be your fuel pump which needs to be checked and engine tuned up after that.

 

[chriskeet]

Hi,

I had a similar problem with the same engines in a fairline sedan 36. We replaced the injectors without solving the problem. Turned out that the 150mm dia exhaust hose had de-laminated and when the engine went above a certain speed it closed up the inner lining of the hose and restricted its diametre. A new hose cured the problem completely

 

[NigelChattin]

Hi,

I can't find any evidence of the exhausts delaminating or there being excessive back pressure in the exhausts. How did you find this is being the problem in your Fairline?

 

[Tomjersey]

Hi,

I know this is a very old thread, but I am experiencing something very similar.
Did you ever find the problem?
or possible someone else can weigh in with any advice

I have a princess Riviera 36 with twin TAMD 61A's
I've owned the boat for about 6 months, during which it has always performed the same
At WOT I can achieve 2400RPM on one engine, and 2600RPM on the other
With full fuel tanks top speed cross tide is ~21 knots, with empty tanks ~24 knots.
After a long run I do find slight black smoke on the transom, but I wouldn't say its excessive
At idle when cold the engines do both smoke quite a bit, which doesn't clear until they are warm, but when warm they do not smoke excessively.

Bottom of the boat is relatively clean.

I notice the preheater power wires have been disconnected from the elements on both engines, I also have the light for preheat illuminated on both control panels all the time.
There is no issue with cold start, both engines fire up right away with no need to apply throttle and seem to run smoothly, there is a slight lope at idle but this is normal for this engine I'm lead to believe.

The engines do seem to be quite lazy, they accelerate very slowly compared to my last boat (AD41P's) and tend to hang at around 1800 rpm for a while building boost before they are keen to pick up.
They will not cavitate the props at all as suggested earlier in this thread, even if applying full throttle from a standstill.

So far I have replaced all fuel filters and air filters, and fitted a new turbo on one engine, and cleaned/rebuilt all the heat exchangers & aftercooler on the engine with the new turbo.
This doesn't seem to have made any difference.

Is it possible that the bypass valve for the aftercooler could fail and stick open? would there be a way to test this?

I have tried very briefly running the engines individually under load at WOT, one will achieve 2000rpm and the other 2200rpm before they seem to stop accelerating. both sound like they are building boost similarly, the one with the new turbo is slightly faster to build and is the one achieving 2200rpm, but before replacing this turbo this engine did already have a slight RPM advantage over the other one (if the RPM gauges are to be trusted anyway)

Next I'm considering replacing the injectors in one engine to see if this improves the situation.


Any advice or experience you could share would be much appreciated.

 

[harvey38]

How many hours have the engines done, have you checked fuel flow in and return? Could be the exhaust elbows are blocked if fuel is OK.

 

[Tomjersey]

How many hours have the engines done, have you checked fuel flow in and return? Could be the exhaust elbows are blocked if fuel is OK.

Hi,
The hour meter is reading between 750-800 hours, and has been going up with my use so does work, but given the age of the boat (1991) I very much doubt the real figure can be this low.
I did have a look inside the exhaust elbows and couldn't see any kind of blockage.

How would be the best way to set about checking the flow rate of the fuel lines?
Is there some sort of vacuum guage i could fit between the filters and the pump?

 

[harvey38]

You could fit a pressure gauge after the filters and the pressure would gradually fall as the filters become clogged but as there maybe a restriction in the lines, you don't have an accurate datum to reference.

Volvopaul is the guru of Volvo engines and I'm sure he'll be along soon with far greater knowledge than I ?

 

[QBhoy]

Hi. Is there signs of fuel in the water, from the exhausts? Perhaps an injector exchange might help. Usually every 500 hours from memory.
But other than that, I’m wondering about your stated performance. I think you may be down on speed there. The same engines in a princess 385 will see a good few knots more than what you have stated from the 36.
How’s your oil pressure readings at idle and warmed ?

 

[Tomjersey]

Hi. Is there signs of fuel in the water, from the exhausts? Perhaps an injector exchange might help. Usually every 500 hours from memory.
But other than that, I’m wondering about your stated performance. I think you may be down on speed there. The same engines in a princess 385 will see a good few knots more than what you have stated from the 36.
How’s your oil pressure readings at idle and warmed ?

Hi,
Yes there does seem to be oil or fuel coming from the exhaust on cold start. Not a lot, but enough to see a sheen on the water if you are looking for it.
Cant say I have noticed it when the engines are hot though.

So for oil pressure, one engine (port side) seems to consistently have 10PSI less pressure than the other
At cold start and idle are in the range of 60-70psi
when hot underload I think they sit around 40-50psi roughly
when hot and at idle port engine is around 25psi, starboard is at around 35psi.
I did feel the port engines oil pressure could be a little on the low side, although I don't know what normal readings for these are
However weirdly the port engine is the one which seems to be running better and achieving higher RPMS

Talking to other owners on the princess forum it seems the 36 Riviera should be capable of achieving 30knot at WOT with these engines, so I think mine are significantly down on power.

 

[DavidJ]

Hi,
Yes there does seem to be oil or fuel coming from the exhaust on cold start. Not a lot, but enough to see a sheen on the water if you are looking for it.
Cant say I have noticed it when the engines are hot though.

So for oil pressure, one engine (port side) seems to consistently have 10PSI less pressure than the other
At cold start and idle are in the range of 60-70psi
when hot underload I think they sit around 40-50psi roughly
when hot and at idle port engine is around 25psi, starboard is at around 35psi.
I did feel the port engines oil pressure could be a little on the low side, although I don't know what normal readings for these are
However weirdly the port engine is the one which seems to be running better and achieving higher RPMS

Talking to other owners on the princess forum it seems the 36 Riviera should be capable of achieving 30knot at WOT with these engines, so I think mine are significantly down on power.

Re your WOT speed. My Sealine S37 is a similar style, tonnage and dimensions and fully loaded with a clean bum I can get just under 30 knots with KAD43‘s which are only 230 hp each

 

[QBhoy]

Hi,
Yes there does seem to be oil or fuel coming from the exhaust on cold start. Not a lot, but enough to see a sheen on the water if you are looking for it.
Cant say I have noticed it when the engines are hot though.

So for oil pressure, one engine (port side) seems to consistently have 10PSI less pressure than the other
At cold start and idle are in the range of 60-70psi
when hot underload I think they sit around 40-50psi roughly
when hot and at idle port engine is around 25psi, starboard is at around 35psi.
I did feel the port engines oil pressure could be a little on the low side, although I don't know what normal readings for these are
However weirdly the port engine is the one which seems to be running better and achieving higher RPMS

Talking to other owners on the princess forum it seems the 36 Riviera should be capable of achieving 30knot at WOT with these engines, so I think mine are significantly down on power.

What kind of oil do you have in them ? Should be old school mineral 15w40, have a smell at the dip stick for a smell of diesel. That will tell you if you might have an injector leaking at least.

 

[Tomjersey]

What kind of oil do you have in them ? Should be old school mineral 15w40, have a smell at the dip stick for a smell of diesel. That will tell you if you might have an injector leaking at least.

I have Volvo brand VDS-4.5 15W/40 along with genuine Volvo filters.
Most expensive oil change of my life.

 

[QBhoy]

I have Volvo brand VDS-4.5 15W/40 along with genuine Volvo filters.
Most expensive oil change of my life.

Ok. I’d start with oil inspection visual and smell…injectors overhaul and a clean of the intercooler. Likely do the other cooler whilst I’m at it. I’d also make sure that exhaust elbow is ok too. Give you a chance to check the turbo exhaust side and check for excess play or any build up of nasty in there.