Volvo Saildrive oil slightly over filled - should I Pela?

I always keep my saildrives on the bottom mark, unlike everything else which is filled with oil, so I would take out the excess. However, I'd just suck it out with a few sucks and blows on a length of hosepipe or similar.

Richard
 
I changed the oil in the sail drive, and on inspection, it appeared I have slightly over filled it!

Is there margin for error or should I take my Pela down and suck some of the oil out?

View attachment 90880
I have had the same quandry - in fact it was when my Volvo was brand new and the oil had been inserted by the Volvo dealer, so apparently the correct volume. I understand there can be a bit of air lock in there (at the top?) which comes and goes sometimes when dip stick is used, or sailing, or more likely at am oil change - so that the oil level can be a bit ambiguous.
In any event I syringed out about 200ml ”just to be sure”, and guess what - days later the level had reduced more than the 200 ml. I’m thinking the air lock had moved to the main chamber, so on unscrewing the dip stick, escaped - allowing the level to drop slightly. I expect someone will be along shortly to explain why this can’t be right :)
In any case I think it was in this forum that I learnt about dip stick ambiguity for Volvo saildrives.
Summary: as this occurred just after an oil change, I would do nothing and check again after some use.
 
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Lubricating a new designed gearbox is as much an art as a science. I comment with 10 years experience as a former head of a niche automotive mechanical transmissions manufacturer. Establishing the correct level can be very empirical. Over and under filling can sometimes give quite surprising results. Overfilling can lead to excessive temperature, pressure and lack of lubrication. Not uncommon to blow seals.

As an example, early Yanmar SD50 saildrives had a higher quantity of oil as “normal” but this was reduced following high incidence of blowing the crankshaft seal. The fix was a replacement, longer dipstick to reduce the volume.

It’s also true that some gearboxes are prone to airlocks with some of their internal galleries and pools taking time to resolve. It’s always worth running under lighter loads for a while after an oil change on a box with known issues for this.
 
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On the Yanmar saildrives overfilling can lead to overpressuring (becuase there is a smaller volume of air to compress when things heat up). The overpressuring can cause oil to be forced out of the shaft seal and then,when everything goes cold, a slight vacuum is caused which can draw sea water into the drive and the next thing is your oil looks like egg yolk as it gets emulsified. If may be completely different on your volvo but if it were me I would keep the level closer to the bottom mark than the top and not leave it overfull.
 
On the Yanmar saildrives overfilling can lead to overpressuring (becuase there is a smaller volume of air to compress when things heat up). The overpressuring can cause oil to be forced out of the shaft seal and then,when everything goes cold, a slight vacuum is caused which can draw sea water into the drive and the next thing is your oil looks like egg yolk as it gets emulsified. If may be completely different on your volvo but if it were me I would keep the level closer to the bottom mark than the top and not leave it overfull.
Indeed, see my post #4. (y)

Every engine/gearbox/differential/hydraulic pump/coolant system etc that I own is always kept topped up to the "maximum" mark, apart from my two sail-drives, which are always on the "minimum" mark.

The principle has been discussed on here several times over the years.

Richard
 
Indeed, see my post #4. (y)

Every engine/gearbox/differential/hydraulic pump/coolant system etc that I own is always kept topped up to the "maximum" mark, apart from my two sail-drives, which are always on the "minimum" mark.

The principle has been discussed on here several times over the years.

Richard
Why is the dipstick not calibrated to allow for the expansion

It seems crazy to have a dipstick with max and min markings if the lower mark must be taken as the max fill level or risk blowing oil seals.
 
Why is the dipstick not calibrated to allow for the expansion

It seems crazy to have a dipstick with max and min markings if the lower mark must be taken as the max fill level or risk blowing oil seals.
It's a good point. I think that the answer is that Yanmar, and possibly other sail-drive manufacturers, state that the seal must be changed every two years. In that sense, the seals are always virtually brand new and the springs are tight and the rubber is supple. In that state, they can withstand the higher pressure/vacuum cycle.

However, who really wants to change these seals so often? The answer is to lower the pressure/vacuum range as much as possible, consistent with keeping sufficient oil in the sail-drive to ensure that it is always well lubricated. The minimum mark is obviously that mark and this should extend the usable life of the seals to four or five years or even longer.

Sheer luck and other operating conditions will obviously play a big part in how long the seals actually last, but why not load the dice in your favour as much as possible if there is no downside. :)

Richard
 
It's a good point. I think that the answer is that Yanmar, and possibly other sail-drive manufacturers, state that the seal must be changed every two years. In that sense, the seals are always virtually brand new and the springs are tight and the rubber is supple. In that state, they can withstand the higher pressure/vacuum cycle.

However, who really wants to change these seals so often? The answer is to lower the pressure/vacuum range as much as possible, consistent with keeping sufficient oil in the sail-drive to ensure that it is always well lubricated. The minimum mark is obviously that mark and this should extend the usable life of the seals to four or five years or even longer.

Sheer luck and other operating conditions will obviously play a big part in how long the seals actually last, but why not load the dice in your favour as much as possible if there is no downside. :)

Richard

There is no requirement to change seals every two years within the Yanmar SD20 & SD50 Periodic Maintenance Table published within the Operation Manual.

The min and max levels are just that. The min or max quantities of oil required to meet the requirements of lubrication, heat transfer etc under prescribed conditions of operation. Interestingly, the manual recommends filling to the upper level mark.

I imagine that designing the lubrication system on a saildrive is quite a challenge. There are long, small area galleries to lubricate the bottom shaft and these notoriously air lock, potentially leading to a number of issues, including level concerns.

Yanmar reduced the recommended oil capacity of the SD50, by providing a new dipstick to older models, to address an issue of the main input shaft seal blowing.

There are reported early life failure of the lower seal but these appear to be a mechanical failure (load from the prop) rather than by over pressure.
 
There is no requirement to change seals every two years within the Yanmar SD20 & SD50 Periodic Maintenance Table published within the Operation Manual.

The min and max levels are just that. The min or max quantities of oil required to meet the requirements of lubrication, heat transfer etc under prescribed conditions of operation. Interestingly, the manual recommends filling to the upper level mark.

I imagine that designing the lubrication system on a saildrive is quite a challenge. There are long, small area galleries to lubricate the bottom shaft and these notoriously air lock, potentially leading to a number of issues, including level concerns.

Yanmar reduced the recommended oil capacity of the SD50, by providing a new dipstick to older models, to address an issue of the main input shaft seal blowing.

There are reported early life failure of the lower seal but these appear to be a mechanical failure (load from the prop) rather than by over pressure.
I'm not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. :unsure:

If you are disagreeing, then you have missed the point, but please feel free to keep filling your sail-drive to the maximum mark if that is your preference. :)

Richard
 
I'm not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. :unsure:

If you are disagreeing, then you have missed the point, but please feel free to keep filling your sail-drive to the maximum mark if that is your preference. :)

Richard

I was neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you, Richard. That's a futile and pointless endeavour as you're always right (including the times when you do a 180) and always like the last word ;)

I was merely stating facts.
 
I was neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you, Richard. That's a futile and pointless endeavour as you're always right (including the times when you do a 180) and always like the last word ;)

I was merely stating facts.
You're stating the facts that you know about. I'm stating the facts that I know about which are in my Yanmar sail-drive manual. ;)

You're then stating your belief in the manufacturers facts. I'm explaining a technique which I, and many others, believe can be used to extend the longevity of your sail-drive seals and which does not have any downside, even according to the manufacturers facts.

No need for any 180's at all. You must simply do whatever you feel is right for you. :)

Richard
 
The saildrive in question is a Volvo Penta one so what you both do with your Yanmars is irrelevant

You're stating the facts that you know about. I'm stating the facts that I know about which are in my Yanmar sail-drive manual. ;)

Richard

Which sail-drives do you have ?
 
Thank you all for the cracking advice - especially the advice that meant I could leave the "big guns" Pela at home and grab from my epoxy gear a syringe and a bit of fuel hose I had laying around.

Rv31oaPm.png


This worked perfectly, and got us just inside the H mark (before the boy managed to pull the end of the syringe off and get oil everywhere - the perils of educating the next generation! The first mate was not best pleased!)

On the issue of not setting the saildrive to the H mark, I'll see if I can get a comment from VP directly to see what they advise. Originally these were specced to run on hydraulic oil as opposed to engine oil. Does engine oil expand more perhaps?
 
Thank you all for the cracking advice - especially the advice that meant I could leave the "big guns" Pela at home and grab from my epoxy gear a syringe and a bit of fuel hose I had laying around.

Rv31oaPm.png


This worked perfectly, and got us just inside the H mark (before the boy managed to pull the end of the syringe off and get oil everywhere - the perils of educating the next generation! The first mate was not best pleased!)

On the issue of not setting the saildrive to the H mark, I'll see if I can get a comment from VP directly to see what they advise. Originally these were specced to run on hydraulic oil as opposed to engine oil. Does engine oil expand more perhaps?
Volvo will, almost certainly, simply quote from the manual as manufacturers are normally only interested in covering their backsides.

It's the expansion and contraction of the air inside the sail-drive that is the problem, not the lubricant. A vent in the cap would solve the problem although I don't believe that any sail-drives include such a thing, perhaps because there are downsides.

Richard
 
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