Volvo Penta Diesel Engine

[Oceanis]

I have got a 2000 vintage Oceanis 411 with a Volvo Penta MD22P diesel engine that's done just over 1,300 hours. Not much really but although it starts and runs perfectly it is kicking out blue smoke. More when it starts but it continues to blow out blue smoke even after it's been running for a while. It's not a huge amount but enough for me to see that it's blue smoke. As the boat spent about five years in the Med I suspect that the bores are glazed from frequent running to recharge the batteries without any load on the engine. The other possibility is that the boat was kept out of the water for about a year and the rings may be gummed up causing blow by in the cylinders. I have tried adding cleaning agents to the fuel to give the injectors and top of the cylinders a clean but without any improvement.

I am going to give the engine a good flush through with an oil cleaning additive which should take all of the muck out of the oilways and sump and give the rings and bores a bit of a clean but I'm not very hopeful. I keep the boat moored in Swansea Marina. Does anyone know a good marine diesel engine mechanic in the Swansea area who could take a look at the engine and give me an honest assessment of what needs to be done as well as carrying out the work?

Alternatively if anyone has any suggestions for what might be causing the blue smoke I would be very grateful because I think I'm staring down the barrel of a very expensive gun right now!

 

[rafiki_]

I suggest you try VolvoPaul on the mobo forum, or PM him. He is very knowledgeable on all things Volvo, and a very helpful person too.

 

[watermint]

I have got a 2000 vintage Oceanis 411 with a Volvo Penta MD22P diesel engine that's done just over 1,300 hours. Not much really but although it starts and runs perfectly it is kicking out blue smoke. More when it starts but it continues to blow out blue smoke even after it's been running for a while. It's not a huge amount but enough for me to see that it's blue smoke. As the boat spent about five years in the Med I suspect that the bores are glazed from frequent running to recharge the batteries without any load on the engine. The other possibility is that the boat was kept out of the water for about a year and the rings may be gummed up causing blow by in the cylinders. I have tried adding cleaning agents to the fuel to give the injectors and top of the cylinders a clean but without any improvement.

I am going to give the engine a good flush through with an oil cleaning additive which should take all of the muck out of the oilways and sump and give the rings and bores a bit of a clean but I'm not very hopeful. I keep the boat moored in Swansea Marina. Does anyone know a good marine diesel engine mechanic in the Swansea area who could take a look at the engine and give me an honest assessment of what needs to be done as well as carrying out the work?

Alternatively if anyone has any suggestions for what might be causing the blue smoke I would be very grateful because I think I'm staring down the barrel of a very expensive gun right now!

kicking out blue smoke. - piston rings have gon
blak smoke - desel injeter
lots white smoke - hed gasket has gon

part ar not cheep for the ( Volvo Penta MD22P ) and some time hard to get

 

[SAMYL]

Sounds like you are burning a bit of oil and probably due to bore glazing as you suggest. 1300 hours is really not a lot so unlikely to be mechanical damage. Try the easy things first.
A cure for glazing, used by fairgrounds running diesel generators for hours on end and a lot of the time without load, was to mix cellulose thinners with the diesel but not more than 5%. The theory is that the thinners ignites first and burns off the glaze, whether that is true or not I don't know but it does seem to work. It actually works better if you use zylene which you can buy from specialist paint suppliers as 'synthetic' thinners, unfortunately £15 a gallon whereas cellulose is about £5.
Worth a try, but not more than 5%.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Alternatively if anyone has any suggestions for what might be causing the blue smoke I would be very grateful because I think I'm staring down the barrel of a very expensive gun right now!

Not necessarily. Trouble is we always assume the worst / most expensive problem and it's not helped by prophets of doom on here.

First thing is - do you need to do anything? If the boat is leaving smoke behind like a destroyer on manoeuvres, then maybe you do. If there is a slight tinge of blue smoke, why not take the "whatever" approach and leave well alone. After all, oil is cheap. And a bit of blue smoke doesnt usually end in a big bang but simply in more blue smoke

If you feel you need to take action, then blue smoke comes from two alternatives - oil leakage down the valve stems ( new valve seals) or oil leakage past the rings. Valve stems can be cured easily with a head off job, and so can bores needing a hone.

If it's any reassurance I was quoted £800 by the local,Volvo dealer to take my engine out and replace the rear crank oil seal. In the end I did it myself but its hardly a kings ransom. So cheer up.

 

[watermint]

i ues to ues vim on a fue tractors

u cood ues vim down the air in take of the engine

Vim is a household cleaning/scouring powder similar I think to Ajax, (is that still available?); which came in a cylindrical cardboard container something like a large pepper pot as I recall. Perhaps these products have now been replaced by liquid detergent cleaners?
and Bang, and the glaze is gone.

Someone I know in Africa had success on some air cooled Deutz engines in old ADTs that spent quite a lot of time idling. Small quantity into air intake followed by four hrs of work then oil and filter changes. He reckoned they smoked less after that. He was sweating when the operating company phoned to say they had an engine blow a couple of days later. He was releived to find it was one they had not touched. Perhaps it was the work following that de glazed the engines . Who knows?

Bore glazing is the build up of varnish type materials in the crosshatch honing in the cylinder liners .
What this varnish is made up of is a combination of oil and fuel from poor and cold combustion. If the engine was running hot enough I think they do not form the same. The type of oil has a effect on this too. Most modern engine compression rings are keystone type and seal tighter the bigger load you have on the engine.
So putting a engine on a dyno or a heavy load can sometimes burn these deposits off otherwise you need to hone the bores.
As for using vim I have seen it done on an old IH 674 that was blowing the dipstick out cured it long enough to go to an auction!!!

There's no doubt a good operator will know when his tractor is down on power.

However if going for fault finding it's best to get it dyno tested first, then you can get a scientific before and after comparison.

The thread title is "chocked up tractor" .... it's possible .... but de-cokes are a thing of the past

 

[Oceanis]

I suggest you try VolvoPaul on the mobo forum, or PM him. He is very knowledgeable on all things Volvo, and a very helpful person too.

Many thanks Rafiki, I have sent him a PM

 

[Oceanis]

Sounds like you are burning a bit of oil and probably due to bore glazing as you suggest. 1300 hours is really not a lot so unlikely to be mechanical damage. Try the easy things first.
A cure for glazing, used by fairgrounds running diesel generators for hours on end and a lot of the time without load, was to mix cellulose thinners with the diesel but not more than 5%. The theory is that the thinners ignites first and burns off the glaze, whether that is true or not I don't know but it does seem to work. It actually works better if you use zylene which you can buy from specialist paint suppliers as 'synthetic' thinners, unfortunately £15 a gallon whereas cellulose is about £5.
Worth a try, but not more than 5%.

I hadn't heard of this one but I had heard about Watermints suggestion although it was finely crushed eggshells. I just haven't got the bottle to chuck a load of adrasive into my cylinders. I will certainly put these ideas to the mechanic who comes to give me an assessment.

 

[Oceanis]

Not necessarily. Trouble is we always assume the worst / most expensive problem and it's not helped by prophets of doom on here.

First thing is - do you need to do anything? If the boat is leaving smoke behind like a destroyer on manoeuvres, then maybe you do. If there is a slight tinge of blue smoke, why not take the "whatever" approach and leave well alone. After all, oil is cheap. And a bit of blue smoke doesnt usually end in a big bang but simply in more blue smoke

If you feel you need to take action, then blue smoke comes from two alternatives - oil leakage down the valve stems ( new valve seals) or oil leakage past the rings. Valve stems can be cured easily with a head off job, and so can bores needing a hone.

If it's any reassurance I was quoted £800 by the local,Volvo dealer to take my engine out and replace the rear crank oil seal. In the end I did it myself but its hardly a kings ransom. So cheer up.

It certainly isn't smoking like a destroyer on manouvres but it's enough to get the people on the boat next to me coughing in a deep barrage lock.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

It certainly isn't smoking like a destroyer on manouvres but it's enough to get the people on the boat next to me coughing in a deep barrage lock.

Most boats will do that - they arent fitted with the particulate filters that modern cars are. The polite thing in a deep barrage lock is to turn the engine off - in fact I think you are instructed to do that in the Bay barrage locks .

Don't give yourself unnecessary problems. Once had a pal who sold his problem free boat because he had heard that the engine only lasted so many hours use ( I forget the number)

 

[Matt341]

It is a problem that we had on our previous yacht with a Volvo MD engine. The verdict was that the bores were glazed up, probably caused by the previous owner running the engine at idle while sailing.

If we hadn't sold the boat before the winter it would have been something I would have looked into. It seemed to be throwing a fair amount of water through and didn't burn any oil so it wasn't anything serious. It was more irritating than anything else. On cold start up it could produce quite a lot of smoke but cleared to a small amount once warm. As you say, its enough to make the people next door cough on start up!

Everyone I spoke to suggested flushing the engine through with some sort of additive which is meant to clear the bores.

Ian

 

[Oceanis]

It is a problem that we had on our previous yacht with a Volvo MD engine. The verdict was that the bores were glazed up, probably caused by the previous owner running the engine at idle while sailing.

If we hadn't sold the boat before the winter it would have been something I would have looked into. It seemed to be throwing a fair amount of water through and didn't burn any oil so it wasn't anything serious. It was more irritating than anything else. On cold start up it could produce quite a lot of smoke but cleared to a small amount once warm. As you say, its enough to make the people next door cough on start up!

Everyone I spoke to suggested flushing the engine through with some sort of additive which is meant to clear the bores.

Ian

That's my next move.....flush the engine through with an oil additive that claims to give the rings and bores a clean. If that fails to make any difference I think it's time to get a mechanic to take a look and give me an honest assessment. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing but there is a constant blue smoke coming from the exhaust. On the other hand we brought the boat round from the Hamble to Swansea and must have motored for 75% of the distance, about 40 hours and used about quarter of a litre of oil so it's not a lot but I don't want to continue running the engine if it's going to make things a lot more expensive to fix in the long run.

At the end of the day the engine shouldn't be producing any smoke once it's warm......should it?

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I don't want to continue running the engine if it's going to make things a lot more expensive to fix in the long run.

At the end of the day the engine shouldn't be producing any smoke once it's warm......should it?

You wont unless it runs out of oil.

Yes they do. The only question is how much ie is it enough to be visible?

 

[watermint]

is the volvo engine fix now - or time for a - new engine ?

 

[Csail]

I agree with adding thinners to the fuel but if your worried about oil consumption there is some stuff we sell that prevents damage even with no oil.....they drove a truck across the us with no oil and it was fine.

 

[Oceanis]

is the volvo engine fix now - or time for a - new engine ?

Boat went back in the water last weekend. Planning on getting down next weekend to flush the oil with cleaning additive and see if that improves things by getting any muck out of the rings. If not I'm going to have a chat with a local Volvo mechanic and get a professional opinion and then decide what to do next.

 

[Oceanis]

I agree with adding thinners to the fuel but if your worried about oil consumption there is some stuff we sell that prevents damage even with no oil.....they drove a truck across the us with no oil and it was fine.

Will certainly put this idea to the local Volvo mechanic and see what he says. If it can't do any harm then it's certainly worth a try. I really can't beleive it's a warn out engine after 1375 hours when I read a number of references to engines doing 5000 hours and still going strong. Liquid engineering is a lot cheaper than a man with a bag of spanners!

 

[Oceanis]

You wont unless it runs out of oil.

Yes they do. The only question is how much ie is it enough to be visible?

I agree that they do burn some oil so I was being a bit too optimistic. I have a constant blue haze coming from the exhaust.....it isn't great clouds of the stuff but enough to see that it's blue and it's always there.

 

[YELLOW BOAT]

One post suggested using crushed eggshells to clean the cylinders.
Its not so strange as ik looks.
Crushed walnuts ( yes really) sometimes are used to clean the turbine blades in a gas turbine. I know it from the gasturbine powerplant which was next to where I worked!
So why not give it a try?
Just crush them ( only the bark of course!) in a coffee grinder ( when youyr wife is out!) . Must be quite fine to get the right result.
Ad

 

[wotayottie]

I agree with adding thinners to the fuel but if your worried about oil consumption there is some stuff we sell that prevents damage even with no oil.....they drove a truck across the us with no oil and it was fine.

You do of course offer a personal guarantee that he will not knacker his engine using this additive? You don´t!!

I doubt there is a single major oil company that recommends using additives, nor a major engine maker.