oldgit
Well-Known Member
The Good the Bad and the Ugly.
Comments, observations welcome.
Reliability and ease of self servicing.
Comments, observations welcome.
Reliability and ease of self servicing.
Volvo Penta D6 in 2006 boat. 700 hours.
- Thread starter oldgit
- Start date
julians
Well-Known Member
I guess this doesnt directly relate to your question, but my previous boat had a d4 260 from 2006/7 with (by the time I sold it) 600 hours on it, so I'd hope it would be relevant.
- It was generally reliable, never let me down at sea
- It was very fuel efficient, never smoked, always (mostly - see below) started promptly, it was an easy engine to live with
I never self serviced mine, but I'd think it was as easy as any diesel to self service, all the filters were easily at hand, The belts are all easy to get to. It has no tappets that require adjustment.
Volvo made a few 'improvements' over the years, things like metal end caps to the heat exchanges, redesigned pulleys, better lids on the raw water strainers etc, if these updates havent been made to the one you're looking at, then you'll probably end up making them as the various weaknesses they were designed to address appear.
The heat exchangers need cleaning every few years - like any heat exchanger, but if they are left they start to leak from the end caps, which drips onto the starter motor , and if left will break the starter motor - VP starters motors are expensive. Look for signs of salt water on the starter - if its been caught early it'll probably be fine.
The exhaust elbow seem to last between 10 - 15 years - so if this hasnt been replaced it will need it at some point - easy job though - did this myself.
If the belts squeak it probably needs new pulleys - I think the bearings fail and the pulley runs slightly out of square with the belt - not hugely expensive, but something to be aware of - Uodated volvo parts will fix it.
The water in fuel sensor failed - giving false water in fuel alarms - easily fixed by just buying a new sensor - all the forums say its the same sensor as used in a land rover diesel engine - its not. or at least the land rover part fits , but throws errors, get the proper vp part.
It developed a problem where it was hard to start if it had been sat for a few hours - an updated volvo part with an added non return valve sorted this one.
VP parts are eye wateringly expensive.
- It was generally reliable, never let me down at sea
- It was very fuel efficient, never smoked, always (mostly - see below) started promptly, it was an easy engine to live with
I never self serviced mine, but I'd think it was as easy as any diesel to self service, all the filters were easily at hand, The belts are all easy to get to. It has no tappets that require adjustment.
Volvo made a few 'improvements' over the years, things like metal end caps to the heat exchanges, redesigned pulleys, better lids on the raw water strainers etc, if these updates havent been made to the one you're looking at, then you'll probably end up making them as the various weaknesses they were designed to address appear.
The heat exchangers need cleaning every few years - like any heat exchanger, but if they are left they start to leak from the end caps, which drips onto the starter motor , and if left will break the starter motor - VP starters motors are expensive. Look for signs of salt water on the starter - if its been caught early it'll probably be fine.
The exhaust elbow seem to last between 10 - 15 years - so if this hasnt been replaced it will need it at some point - easy job though - did this myself.
If the belts squeak it probably needs new pulleys - I think the bearings fail and the pulley runs slightly out of square with the belt - not hugely expensive, but something to be aware of - Uodated volvo parts will fix it.
The water in fuel sensor failed - giving false water in fuel alarms - easily fixed by just buying a new sensor - all the forums say its the same sensor as used in a land rover diesel engine - its not. or at least the land rover part fits , but throws errors, get the proper vp part.
It developed a problem where it was hard to start if it had been sat for a few hours - an updated volvo part with an added non return valve sorted this one.
VP parts are eye wateringly expensive.
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oldgit
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that.
These engines are on friends boat that is up for sale and am interested, if only due to the dearth of 40ft other /any flybridge boats on the market.
Its really the tales of woe about the D6 all over the internet , reliability is one thing , major failure is another.
Especially accounts of piston problems.
These engines are on friends boat that is up for sale and am interested, if only due to the dearth of 40ft other /any flybridge boats on the market.
Its really the tales of woe about the D6 all over the internet , reliability is one thing , major failure is another.
Especially accounts of piston problems.
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Portofino
Well-Known Member
Pistons will be fuel hygiene related , leading to hosing from a knackered stuck open injector .
There are two causes
Water or 8hit getting through.
This boils down to tanks , water ingress and obviously filtration servicing .
Wether its a poor system or weak system Volvo use is another Q . After market Racors could be fitted with additional WIF ?
The second cause is basic low running and the low EGT thingy .They say modern CR s have the ECU brain trickery to realise the low load and adjust the fuelling down .This is kinda ok ish better but no matter how you look at it the cylinders temp + pressures never get up where they should and eventually soot / carbon starts to cling to the injector tips and foul them .
CR tips have multiple tiny holes and sequential injector time periods .
More temperamental .
Move your thoughts away from a big single tip and one squirt from a none CR eg in a Gardner 6 XLB or older Perkins or Lister .
Still running decades old .
So a combo of uber fine cannula and poor fuel hygiene AND a large hrs under low load = trouble .
I think if the fuel hygiene is spot on and the load high circa 3000 rpm mostly then they will be fine …..but any marina diesel will be too .
I don’t think it’s the Marque per se it the way owners use and look after them .
Unfortunately a lot sold and a significant % abused = Internet volumes.
Stuff like leaky end caps aside = easy fix for those bothered but a lot aren’t and just wait until they leak and whinge on social media .
There are two causes
Water or 8hit getting through.
This boils down to tanks , water ingress and obviously filtration servicing .
Wether its a poor system or weak system Volvo use is another Q . After market Racors could be fitted with additional WIF ?
The second cause is basic low running and the low EGT thingy .They say modern CR s have the ECU brain trickery to realise the low load and adjust the fuelling down .This is kinda ok ish better but no matter how you look at it the cylinders temp + pressures never get up where they should and eventually soot / carbon starts to cling to the injector tips and foul them .
CR tips have multiple tiny holes and sequential injector time periods .
More temperamental .
Move your thoughts away from a big single tip and one squirt from a none CR eg in a Gardner 6 XLB or older Perkins or Lister .
Still running decades old .
So a combo of uber fine cannula and poor fuel hygiene AND a large hrs under low load = trouble .
I think if the fuel hygiene is spot on and the load high circa 3000 rpm mostly then they will be fine …..but any marina diesel will be too .
I don’t think it’s the Marque per se it the way owners use and look after them .
Unfortunately a lot sold and a significant % abused = Internet volumes.
Stuff like leaky end caps aside = easy fix for those bothered but a lot aren’t and just wait until they leak and whinge on social media .
ari
Well-Known Member
Great engines! Punchy, quiet, smooth (really smooth for a 4 cylinder), smoke free, economical (relatively - it's still a boat).
A major step forward from the KAD engines it replaced.
A major step forward from the KAD engines it replaced.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Now have some engine serial Nos and going to contact local VP dealer Volspec regards any serice history.
ari
Well-Known Member
Top Tip with D4 is to check the top of the raw water strainer. They originally got black screw on lids. These proved inadequate against water pressure and would eventually leak and start to fill the engine bay with salt water. I know someone who nearly sank a boat that way!
VP replaced them with a clear lid held in place with four thumb screws - way more secure!
If it's still on the original black lid, you've got to wonder whether a proper Volvo Penta dealer has been near it as it would have been replaced if they had.
Also check for signs of salt water corrosion, obviously immersing an engine in salt water isn't great for it!
VP replaced them with a clear lid held in place with four thumb screws - way more secure!
If it's still on the original black lid, you've got to wonder whether a proper Volvo Penta dealer has been near it as it would have been replaced if they had.
Also check for signs of salt water corrosion, obviously immersing an engine in salt water isn't great for it!
Portofino
Well-Known Member
It’s D6 s but they had the same strainer lids .issue i understand Would have thought 15 y later all this is history by now ?
julians
Well-Known Member
yes, same lids on d4 & d6.
My black plastic lid never had an issue, but in the end the water strainer 'bucket' itself cracked when I leant on it one day, so I got one of the new sort with the clear perspex lid .
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Reminds me of the VAG coil pack saga mid noughties. A significant amount of Bosche duff ones a bad batch got through.
Long story short VAG retro fitted new coil packs to every vehicle built between X and Y dates ….a huge recall jobbies
So imagine now some one posting “ Any problems with a 05 GTI “ and guy pipes up “ crap coil packs “
17 years later !!
Same with MAN at the turn of the century some 22 yrs ago now Bosche allowed a duff batch of injectors to get through.A lot ended up in the then 98/99 MAN engines ,Unfortunately a lot of those went to the states as MAN were breaking ground into DD and CAT territory, conquest sales trying to break a habit of the American boaters lifetime .
They hosed and holed pistons and the term “ mangrenade “ was invented .
MAN like VAG did a huge recall and put right often engine out and rebuilds etc . Replacement of all injectors even in boats with no issues as they could not be certain which has the grenading injectors.
You only need one faulty one in V12 and it kills it .
22 yrs later any that slipped through the recall would have blown by now .
Like the D 6 they can go on to 1000s of trouble free hrs if correctly maintained .
Any motor over 10 yrs certainly circa 15 yrs it’s down to its history more now rather than marque .
How it’s been serviced and used .
They are very open to abuse .
ari
Well-Known Member
Not actually true (there's a surprise!)
I had a VAG car with the coil pack issue, bought brand new from a main dealer. It was never recalled for this issue, although they were finally replaced when they eventually failed.
And I have seen D4 engines still on the original black raw water filters quite recently. If they have been serviced outside of VP main dealer and haven't yet caused the issue, they would not necessarily have been replaced.
IDAMAY
Well-Known Member
That also happened to a friend of mine with a Princess V42, which may have had D6s. He was mighty relieved to get back to the marina!
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Think you are splitting hairs tbh .
Point is folks regurgitation of old 15 yrs recalls / upgrades on motors running very well .Could understand mentioning an active campaign .
VAG were slow to react to the coil pack issue as they did not know the magnitude of it initially.They did eventually replace them all .Started off with the one offending , then that ramped up to all as you say as they came in with issues then as I said they just replaced them if your car was identified as manufactured between x-Y irrespective of it ever having the issue in the dealer network.Due to the huge vol and workload they did not feel the need to deliberately call folks in , just did it as and when ( assuming the coil pack did not cause a separate visit ) when the customers presented with routine service work .
But the time interval now means as I said the “ duff coil pack “ downer for a circa 05 car is not applicable .
Same with its VP s strainer caps .They by now are 15 odd yrs old or what ever so have been replaced or just happen to have one thats not been cross threaded or fractured or is leaky to be a issue worth mentioning.
Your point about finding a boat still with the older fragile version is a good one as it asks the Q what else has been neglected ?
As said it all in the maintenance history once a motor is over say 10 y .Not so much the marque by now .
It might be better to word it like this ?
“ Historically when they came out in 2004 /5 the D6 had a weak strainer lid .Many we’re replaced with a upgraded version early on .How ever fast fwd to 2022 and draw you own conclusions how concerning this is now if you come across one with the original strainer lid because it’s so easy to up grade“
Something like that .
ari
Well-Known Member
It is a scary business for sure!
Elessar
Well-Known Member
They are economical and powerful.The Good the Bad and the Ugly.
Comments, observations welcome.
Reliability and ease of self servicing.
In a big, shaft drive boat I prefer the bite of a big prop on a lower revving engine such as a 75. The D6 feels a bit revvy.
But the comprehensive info on fuel burn etc allowing you to trim to minimise your l/mile is welcome.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
"In a big, shaft drive boat I prefer the bite of a big prop on a lower revving engine such as a 75. "
Agree completely with that sentiment and have decided to look elsewhere.
Thanks all.
Corona Mia
Well-Known Member
Not sure if I completely agree with the bit about the bite of the prop and feeling revvy??
We had a lovely (but old) Broom Monarch that we re-engined from Volvo 60c’s to D6 370’s in 2007.
Yes it’s true that the D6’s rev more……and we ‘propped’ the boat accordingly.
They also developed more power, and always felt and sounded very smooth with lots of ‘grunt’ across the rev range.
For slow-speed berthing/lock work……when we wanted a ‘bite’ of power, it was just as positive as with the old 60c’s.
Just without such a ‘loud clunk’ from the gearboxes.?
For higher speeds……..we once had to make a ‘weather dash’ from Weymouth to Cherbourg (MBY Cruise).
In some seriously large seas, the D6’s were very responsive with lots of ‘bite’ when we needed to climb some rather big waves.
Re the OP question about reliability at 700hrs?
As we only did around 150 hrs on ours, it would be unfair to comment on longer term reliability.
But the only problem we ever had was when one of the gearbox sensors had a ‘disagreement’ with the ECU.
But that computers for you!?
We had a lovely (but old) Broom Monarch that we re-engined from Volvo 60c’s to D6 370’s in 2007.
Yes it’s true that the D6’s rev more……and we ‘propped’ the boat accordingly.
They also developed more power, and always felt and sounded very smooth with lots of ‘grunt’ across the rev range.
For slow-speed berthing/lock work……when we wanted a ‘bite’ of power, it was just as positive as with the old 60c’s.
Just without such a ‘loud clunk’ from the gearboxes.?
For higher speeds……..we once had to make a ‘weather dash’ from Weymouth to Cherbourg (MBY Cruise).
In some seriously large seas, the D6’s were very responsive with lots of ‘bite’ when we needed to climb some rather big waves.
Re the OP question about reliability at 700hrs?
As we only did around 150 hrs on ours, it would be unfair to comment on longer term reliability.
But the only problem we ever had was when one of the gearbox sensors had a ‘disagreement’ with the ECU.
But that computers for you!?
boatmad
New Member
1500 ish hrs now on our D6 435s. Broom 425 2007, mixture of slow Broads cruising and extended fast coastal work, very happy.
Well matched to the boat, great spread of torque, 22kn cruise and 34kn WOT. 110-120LPH combined at cruise.
They eat belt tensioners every couple of seasons, so we change them before it becomes an issue. Have the heat exchangers flushed every season for additional peace of mind. EVC throttles started playing up end of last year, which we have stripped and rebuilt. Don't forget to change engine anodes, favourite is the old one rots out and falls into the cooler, reducing flow.
As said above watch for leaking end caps, leaking fuel coolers, leaking rear main oil seal, usual Volvo stuff.
Other than regular general servicing and the above, no scary bills as yet. Provided that engine bay access is good, self-servicing is certainly possible, just bare in mind most electrical issues require a Vodia tool to interrogate the system, so you're likely to be friends with the local dealer one way or another!
Well matched to the boat, great spread of torque, 22kn cruise and 34kn WOT. 110-120LPH combined at cruise.
They eat belt tensioners every couple of seasons, so we change them before it becomes an issue. Have the heat exchangers flushed every season for additional peace of mind. EVC throttles started playing up end of last year, which we have stripped and rebuilt. Don't forget to change engine anodes, favourite is the old one rots out and falls into the cooler, reducing flow.
As said above watch for leaking end caps, leaking fuel coolers, leaking rear main oil seal, usual Volvo stuff.
Other than regular general servicing and the above, no scary bills as yet. Provided that engine bay access is good, self-servicing is certainly possible, just bare in mind most electrical issues require a Vodia tool to interrogate the system, so you're likely to be friends with the local dealer one way or another!
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Much appreciate the input.
Have decided to not go any further with this particular boat, although with D6 engines, not the real problem, it was the drive system.
A clue, it would need gearbox oil changes every year. 2 x 14L. 28 litres of oil @ £24.50 per litre and shaft seal replacement every 1200 hours.
The boat search goes on.
Does anybody know of a 1998-2002 Prinline Flybridge 40 (ish) footer on nice reliable shafts without a "Staycation" price sticker in UK ?
Have decided to not go any further with this particular boat, although with D6 engines, not the real problem, it was the drive system.
A clue, it would need gearbox oil changes every year. 2 x 14L. 28 litres of oil @ £24.50 per litre and shaft seal replacement every 1200 hours.
The boat search goes on.
Does anybody know of a 1998-2002 Prinline Flybridge 40 (ish) footer on nice reliable shafts without a "Staycation" price sticker in UK ?
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julians
Well-Known Member
What drive system is that then? and dont all gearboxes recommend an oil change yearly?
