Volvo MD11c starting problem

[orion50]

hi folks,
when I went to start my VP MD11C yesterday, the engine did not turn over. I assumed a flat battery and returned today with battery pack and multi tester. I was surprised to note both engine batteries registered 12.75V or thereabouts.
Tried starting her again and noted a clicking noise which might be a stuck starter or similar? Absolutely no hint of a turn over from the engine itself.

So a couple of queries

Is this a common problem with this engine type and if so what is the probable cause? ( I dont own this boat very long)

If it is a starter problem, where is the starter located and can i solve by squirting some WD40 along the central shaft?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Trundlebug]

Sounds more like a bad connection somewhere between the battery and the engine.

Check the following, carefully, if necessary by removing / undoing the connection and re-making each one tightly, making sure the wire and terminals are clean:-

Battery posts / clamps
Every joint and junction between the battery and the starter motor (including the starter solenoid) on the positive side
The engine earth and general earth leads all the way back to the battery.

You'll need to follow the cables from start to finish. Bound to be a poor connection somewhere I would have thought.
If having done this it still won't turn over, you may have a fauly starter motor. Remove, try on the bench and either repair it or replace.

Happy fixing!

 

[KellysEye]

You raised starter motor, trundlebug raised bad connectios and those cover the options, given the batteries are OK. To test if the starter motor is stuck hit it with a hammer when starting engine. It's not an unusual problem and that usually fixes it.

 

[orion50]

Sounds more like a bad connection somewhere between the battery and the engine.

Check the following, carefully, if necessary by removing / undoing the connection and re-making each one tightly, making sure the wire and terminals are clean:-

Battery posts / clamps
Every joint and junction between the battery and the starter motor (including the starter solenoid) on the positive side
The engine earth and general earth leads all the way back to the battery.

You'll need to follow the cables from start to finish. Bound to be a poor connection somewhere I would have thought.
If having done this it still won't turn over, you may have a fauly starter motor. Remove, try on the bench and either repair it or replace.

Happy fixing!

When i turn the engine key the oil pressure and temp alarms sound - does this not eliminate faulty battery connection possibility?

 

[ALPHORA]

One way to check if the power is getting to the starter motor is bypass all the connections on the way by using a jump lead. You can also put a second jump lead from the engine block to the other side of the battery to bypass a possible bad earth. If there is no action from the starter motor when it is connected to the battery directly then either the batteries are not providing enough power or the starter motor isn't working. Take care and disconnect the jump leads from the engine end first.

 

[VicS]

Did you try to turn the engine by hand. It does have provision for hand starting ( but I have never tried to start one by hand).

It should turn without great difficulty just by turning the flywheel. That'll confirm that the engine is not seized or full of water!

If the engine is free then bad connection as suggested is most likely. ( dont forget the negative connections when checking )

Starter motor is on the stbd side as is the alternator.
The alternator is belt driven. Easy to see.
The starter has a pinion that engages with the ring gear on the flywheel. Also easy to see

Owners manual can be downloaded from http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopent...lication_search/pages/publication_search.aspx

Workshop manual at http://www.bluemoment.com/downloads.html

No to the question about WD 40 ! Not likely at all.


.

 

[VicS]

When i turn the engine key the oil pressure and temp alarms sound - does this not eliminate faulty battery connection possibility?

Perhaps not entirely.

Do they dim, or even go out, when you turn the key to the start position

 

[orion50]

Perhaps not entirely.

Do they dim, or even go out, when you turn the key to the start position

Yes they do to the best of my recollection.

 

[VicS]

Yes they do to the best of my recollection.

If the battery is Ok most probably a poor connection. Start with battery terminals, then isolator then main + and - connections to the engine.

Dont use a digital multimeter to check for supplies. It uses so little current that poor connections will have no effect on the reading.

A bulb is better or a bulb and voltmeter in parallel.

 

[orion50]

Did you try to turn the engine by hand. It does have provision for hand starting ( but I have never tried to start one by hand).

It should turn without great difficulty just by turning the flywheel. That'll confirm that the engine is not seized or full of water!

If the engine is free then bad connection as suggested is most likely. ( dont forget the negative connections when checking )

Starter motor is on the stbd side as is the alternator.
The alternator is belt driven. Easy to see.
The starter has a pinion that engages with the ring gear on the flywheel. Also easy to see

Owners manual can be downloaded from http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopent...lication_search/pages/publication_search.aspx

Workshop manual at http://www.bluemoment.com/downloads.html

No to the question about WD 40 ! Not likely at all.


.

I haven't come across the starter handle so I have had to forego the pleasur e (!) of trying to start her by hand. Having tried it a few times on my previous boat I cant say I'm sorry!

Does the fact that the starter goes click click click when the key is turned not imply that the conections are sound and that the problem is with the starter?

For some reason the manuals tell you loads about the engine itself but little about starter or wiring to same - one schematic diagram.

 

[Jcorstorphine]

I haven't come across the starter handle so I have had to forego the pleasur e (!) of trying to start her by hand. Having tried it a few times on my previous boat I cant say I'm sorry!

Does the fact that the starter goes click click click when the key is turned not imply that the conections are sound and that the problem is with the starter?

For some reason the manuals tell you loads about the engine itself but little about starter or wiring to same - one schematic diagram.

The click you hear is just the solenoid which pushes the gear into mesh with the flywheel (or it should do) You may still have a bad connection on the heavy cable that goes to the starter motor or in fact the main earth cable connection or even the battery connection may be iffy. The fact that you hear a click from the solenoid does not guarantee that all of the other connection are sound.

Start at the battery, then the battery isolator switch, then the engine earth and then the starter motor heavy cable connection and make sure they are all clean between the nuts and the terminals on the cables.

One point is to make sure you keep well away from the flywheel and not have any loose clothing if you try and jump start the engine using temporary cables.
(if the flywheel does not get you, the alternator belt will)

 

[VicS]

Does the fact that the starter goes click click click when the key is turned not imply that the conections are sound and that the problem is with the starter?

It suggests to me that the solenoid is operating, a large-ish current flows, but not enough to crank the engine, the volts fal, the solenoid opens again, the volts recover and the process is repeated.

May be the starter motor is faulty or seized

maybe the engine is seized or full of water ... have you treid to turn it by hand?

Maybe the battery isolator is faulty.

It costs nothing to check that the engine is free and nothing to check and clean all the connections.

If all these things are Ok then remove strip and examine the starter motor.

Very few parts are available. A complete new motor is about €1000 or €1200 depending on type.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Agree with all the above suggestions. The fact it is clicking suggests to me that it is the "heavy" earth that is the most likely cause of the problem. IMHE (in my humble experience with an MD2b). Reinforce-clean all connections thoroughly.

 

[NickRobinson]

Mechanics/(car thieves!) tip -watch your dangly bits

You can cut to the chase with a non-starting pre-engaged starter motor. (That's the commonest type, a large-ish cylindrical shape (the motor) with a smaller cylinder (the solenoid/electric switch) piggy-backed on. The smaller has two large terminals and one small spade terminal.

http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2008/6/2009012910276680706pre.jpeg

Use a screwdriver or other conducting rod to bridge from the large terminal incoming from the battery to the small spade to crank the engine. This misses out the entire 'ignition' circuit and proves the health or otherwise of the battery, heavy leads and starter instantly with no dismantling.

Then if unsuccessful, the advice above about using jumper leads is the next step.

Nick

 

[VicS]

You can cut to the chase with a non-starting pre-engaged starter motor. (That's the commonest type, a large-ish cylindrical shape (the motor) with a smaller cylinder (the solenoid/electric switch) piggy-backed on. The smaller has two large terminals and one small spade terminal.

http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2008/6/2009012910276680706pre.jpeg

Use a screwdriver or other conducting rod to bridge from the large terminal incoming from the battery to the small spade to crank the engine. This misses out the entire 'ignition' circuit and proves the health or otherwise of the battery, heavy leads and starter instantly with no dismantling.

Then if unsuccessful, the advice above about using jumper leads is the next step.

Nick

That would bypass the ignition switch circuit but that is not IMO where a bad connection causing the trouble will be.
Try it if you like
BUT
Take great care because it is not all that accessible, being on the far end of the starter motor It also requires reaching past the alternator drive belt.
If it starts, or even cranks, you will be startled and could easily jump and find yourself or your clothing entangled with the belt and alternator.

The next step would be to bridge the two large terminals on the solenoid.

For the reasons above these are hazardous things to attempt.

Take care with jump leads too.
There is small risk that a spark at one of the battery terminals can ignite any hydrogen gas given off. The probability of it happening is low but it can happen and periodically does happen. The consequences of a battery exploding in your face are serious. That is why when jump starting vehicles there is a correct procedure for connecting and disconnecting the leads

 

[VicS]

Agree with all the above suggestions. The fact it is clicking suggests to me that it is the "heavy" earth that is the most likely cause of the problem. IMHE (in my humble experience with an MD2b). Reinforce-clean all connections thoroughly.

It may be a particular problem you have encountered but the is no reason for the clicking to indicate a bad connection on the earth side any more than on the positive side

 

[NickRobinson]

That would bypass the ignition switch circuit but that is not IMO where a bad connection causing the trouble will be.
Try it if you like
BUT
Take great care because it is not all that accessible, being on the far end of the starter motor It also requires reaching past the alternator drive belt.
If it starts, or even cranks, you will be startled and could easily jump and find yourself or your clothing entangled with the belt and alternator.

The next step would be to bridge the two large terminals on the solenoid.

For the reasons above these are hazardous things to attempt.

I agree Vic, and the clue about repetitive clicking points to a non ignition side problem.

Just bridging the large terminals on the starter would spin the starter out of mesh. It would prove that the motor is unjammed and functional but would not be a real test of poor connections or batteries as the load would be much lower than when cranking

I did warn in my title line about safety (dangly bits)!

Nick

 

[lydiamight]

From memory I think that the MD11C starter is the type where the starter spins and throws the engagement cog up a spiral bevel to engage with the flywheel.
Had a problem once where the starter motor spun but wouldn't engage with the flywheel---temporary solution was to spray with WD40. Longer term solution was to take the starter motor off and clean out the twenty year old congealed and hardened grease stopping the cog from moving up the spiral bevel. Regreased with some new silicone grease and never looked back.
Not sure if this is your problem though as you would hear the starter motor spinning away without moving the engine.

 

[VicS]

From memory I think that the MD11C starter is the type where the starter spins and throws the engagement cog up a spiral bevel to engage with the flywheel.

An inertai type? 'fraid not . It's a pre-engage type.

At least the one I know well is and its what is shown in all the manuals available online that I have come across and the parts lists too.

 

[davidej]

When i turn the engine key the oil pressure and temp alarms sound - does this not eliminate faulty battery connection possibility?

NO cos a poor connection will pass enough current to work the sensors but not the 100 times or more required for the starter.