Visitors’s shore power - adding complications

[lustyd]

Our average house is all electric (no solar) and the daily cost, averaged over a year, is £4.40.

in kWh please. The average UK medium house is 8kWh/day ylop suggested a boat would use 16.5kWh in 5.5 hours.

The boats will arrive with full batteries and cold fridges for the most part, and will have diesel heaters in all but the smallest boats. Not a chance would a boat burn that much electricity.

Let’s not confuse the capability of the supply with usage. Homes are generally a 100A supply but they aren’t using over 500kWh/day. Actual usage is always a fraction of the supply

 

[langstonelayabout]

Paying for water is not uncommon abroad, usually €1 for 100l.

Eh? You want to pay an extra £5 for the water that was included in your berthing fee until earlier this year? How many small sailing boats can take over 500 litres?
A fool and his money are soon parted (and judging by the people who seem happy to pay extra now I’ll be returning to motorcycles)

 

[Stemar]

Eh? You want to pay an extra £5 for the water that was included in your berthing fee until earlier this year? How many small sailing boats can take over 500 litres?
A fool and his money are soon parted (and judging by the people who seem happy to pay extra now I’ll be returning to motorcycles)

It's just another reason why I don't do Marinas, at least, not the ones that do that.

 

[johnalison]

Eh? You want to pay an extra £5 for the water that was included in your berthing fee until earlier this year? How many small sailing boats can take over 500 litres?
A fool and his money are soon parted (and judging by the people who seem happy to pay extra now I’ll be returning to motorcycles)

This was for visitors. I never enquired into what residents did. In these places, such as Germany, marina costs were generally much lower than here anyway, so paying for water or showers was never unduly painful.

 

[ylop]

in kWh please. The average UK medium house is 8kWh/day ylop suggested a boat would use 16.5kWh in 5.5 hours.

could not would.

The boats will arrive with full batteries

Not necessarily one of the things that makes me go to a marina is to charge the batteries

and cold fridges for the most part,

Perhaps - but they get opened a lot more in harbour so have to work, we often provision at a marina so some of what we load will be above fridge temp needing cooled down. I don’t think fridge will be a massive contributor on my boat (but it’s definitely less efficient than my fridge at home).

and will have diesel heaters in all but the smallest boats.

perhaps, but electric fan eaters or oil filled radiators are not uncommon on marina dwelling boats

Not a chance would a boat burn that much electricity.

If you arrive at 1800 and leave at 0900 you “only” need to burn 0.5kW per hr to generate a £5 bill at commercial rates.

Let’s not confuse the capability of the supply with usage. Homes are generally a 100A supply but they aren’t using over 500kWh/day. Actual usage is always a fraction of the supply

Of course, but if your supply was unmetered you might be less careful with the energy! I’m not arguing it’s a great deal, but be careful what we wish for - metered billing is a PITA (turn up after the office is closed and no power, buying cards pre-charged with credit you will never use all of is no cheaper, and the devices themselves seem temperamental).

 

[lustyd]

could not would.

Not necessarily one of the things that makes me go to a marina is to charge the batteries

Perhaps - but they get opened a lot more in harbour so have to work, we often provision at a marina so some of what we load will be above fridge temp needing cooled down. I don’t think fridge will be a massive contributor on my boat (but it’s definitely less efficient than my fridge at home).

perhaps, but electric fan eaters or oil filled radiators are not uncommon on marina dwelling boats

If you arrive at 1800 and leave at 0900 you “only” need to burn 0.5kW per hr to generate a £5 bill at commercial rates.

Of course, but if your supply was unmetered you might be less careful with the energy! I’m not arguing it’s a great deal, but be careful what we wish for - metered billing is a PITA (turn up after the office is closed and no power, buying cards pre-charged with credit you will never use all of is no cheaper, and the devices themselves seem temperamental).

The usage you’re describing is a tight yachtie on a MAB and unlikely to take a lot overall. Big boats which could draw more power won’t because they don’t stay out until their batteries are empty and neither would they consider having an oil filled radiator on board.

Why would it be commercial rates? The charge is not paid by the marina so it’s a residential electricity rate. Unless your marina is ripping you off, of course. We averaged £5/month at Haslar and were onboard a lot more than most, sometimes months at a time.

 

[Malish]

Having just sailed around part of the south coast without the need for shore power I would be very happy if it was an extra rather than included in the tariff. Trouble is I suspect the tariff would not change in my favour. Marinas were also offering WiFi and other add-ons within the berthing fee (water and showers) which I had little use for, ok accepting a shower might have been an improvement

 

[ylop]

Why would it be commercial rates? The charge is not paid by the marina so it’s a residential electricity rate.

My understanding is that the Ofgem price cap only applies to residential customers who have a contract with an Ofgem regulated energy company. Pre Ukraine crisis that didn't seem to matter as everyone paid roughly the same. But we are now in an era where the price cap is what virtually all of us at home pay (27p/kWh) and power companies have all put up their commercial rates. Some people were in long term fixed price deals but a lot of them will have ended by now. A marina is not a residential customer and a berth holder has no relationship with the electricity company direct so (1) the marina will be charged whatever the supplier can get away with AND (2) because its not a domestic electricity sale it has 20% rather than 5% VAT.

Alternative homes energy guidance

Unless your marina is ripping you off, of course. We averaged £5/month at Haslar and were onboard a lot more than most, sometimes months at a time.

I don't keep my boat in a marina. I used to, electricity cost was metered (via customer provided meter in the cable) and wasn't particularly expensive compared to the rest of the cost! The discussion here was not for "resident" boats but for visitors. Resident boats on a metered supply should not be charged any extra than the marina is paying - but can have meter reading or other standing charges added!

 

[Lucky Duck]

My understanding is that the Ofgem price cap only applies to residential customers who have a contract with an Ofgem regulated energy company. Pre Ukraine crisis that didn't seem to matter as everyone paid roughly the same. But we are now in an era where the price cap is what virtually all of us at home pay (27p/kWh) and power companies have all put up their commercial rates. Some people were in long term fixed price deals but a lot of them will have ended by now. A marina is not a residential customer and a berth holder has no relationship with the electricity company direct so (1) the marina will be charged whatever the supplier can get away with AND (2) because its not a domestic electricity sale it has 20% rather than 5% VAT.

Alternative homes energy guidance


I don't keep my boat in a marina. I used to, electricity cost was metered (via customer provided meter in the cable) and wasn't particularly expensive compared to the rest of the cost! The discussion here was not for "resident" boats but for visitors. Resident boats on a metered supply should not be charged any extra than the marina is paying - but can have meter reading or other standing charges added!

It’s been a while since there were no practical alternatives to the price’cap’

My current fix is around 10% less which is not untypical

 

[ylop]

It’s been a while since there were no practical alternatives to the price’cap’

My current fix is around 10% less which is not untypical

As a domestic customer or a commercial one?

 

[Lucky Duck]

Domestic, but if open market domestic prices are less then why would the commercial ones be any different?

 

[Wansworth]

I don't mind paying a fair price for shore-power when visiting somewhere, either incorporated in the overnight charge or as an optional addition when settling up, but it'd piss me off if I had to install an app I'm only likely to ever use once or twice.

What's a fair price? My monthly domestic bill is about £40 for a small family house, equates to £1.33 a day, for fridge, freezer, clothes washing, ironing, cooker, hob, dishwasher, computers, TV, lights, pumps for underfloor heating, etc, etc.

Electricity use on the boat is confined to a couple of kettles of hot water, a small fan-heater in cold weather, and sometimes topping up the batteries.... hardly worth £3.50 or even £5.00 as some places charge.

Are you sure your electricity bill for a month is only 40 quid seems very cheap

 

[Lucky Duck]

My combined electricity and gas direct debit is currently £53

 

[Sticky Fingers]

This was for visitors. I never enquired into what residents did. In these places, such as Germany, marina costs were generally much lower than here anyway, so paying for water or showers was never unduly painful.

Folly is visitors only.

 

[Wansworth]

My combined electricity and gas direct debit is currently £53

Is that for a week?

 

[Lucky Duck]

Per month, unremarkable 4 bedroom house. No PV panels.

 

[Momac]

Per month, unremarkable 4 bedroom house. No PV panels.

So what do you do to make it so low?
eg single occupancy , only live in it 6 months a year , work away a lot , shower at the gym, eat out a lot , don't use the heating ?

 

[Wansworth]

Per month, unremarkable 4 bedroom house. No PV panels.

Just been talking to my daughter in Herefordshire and she pays 400 quid a month for just two in a small cottage!

 

[Lucky Duck]

So what do you do to make it so low?
eg single occupancy , only live in it 6 months a year , work away a lot , shower at the gym, eat out a lot , don't use the heating ?

I suspect there is an element of ‘burning’ through the credit the account has accumulated but it’s not a massive amount.