Rum_Pirate
Well-Known Member
Do Trinidad waters extend out 12, 50, 100 or more miles?
Visiting small countries in the Caribbean
- Thread starter Rum_Pirate
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snowleopard
Well-Known Member
We went through Guadeloupe over the Mardi Gras weekend so couldn't find anyone to clear in or out with. We had to present ourselves at English harbour with a clearance from Dominica and the customs guy was very stroppy but let it go in the end. Clearing out of Jolly Harbour the official turned up an hour late with no apology to the queue of people who had been waiting outside in the sun. Of course there's no point in moaning, it only makes things worse.
We tried to clear out from St Pierre Martinique but the office never opened at the advertised times so we had to take a bus to Fort de France.
We left the Windwards & Leewards with a general impression of surly and officious customs officers so were delighted to clear into Bermuda where the officials gave the impression of being genuinely pleased to see us.
tcm
...
Those that deliberately flaunt the laws of a country should not complain when their yacht is confiscated or other penalty (ie fiscal or imprisonment) is applied under that countries laws.
What utter rubbish. So, you support any and all madcap punishments for the slightest infringment, sharia law, the lot. Silly thread, silly man.
Rum_Pirate
Well-Known Member
Rum_Pirate said:
I will grab the hook of the troll.
I repeat "Those that deliberately flaunt the laws of a country should not complain when their yacht is confiscated or other penalty (ie fiscal or imprisonment) is applied under that countries laws."
Note the bolded sections.
Why is that rubbish?
what would your response be if I deliberately flaunted the laws of the UK when I went there and got caught and then started to bitch and whine?
I, for one would not deliberately flaunt the laws of a country and should one do so, one should not complain when caught.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However this one was posted because I have seen the results of when individuals traveling in the Caribbean deliberately flaunt the laws of a country and when caught whine and complained like spoilt children .
It was posted to help prevent a re-occurance and save others, thus suggest that it is not ''silly''.
Why does one find it necessary to personally insult individuals, instead of giving a reasoned argument/defence in regard to a post?
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Bosun Higgs
N/A
Dont really understand that comment since we have way less bureaucracy here than in France
BrianH
Well-Known Member
It was very active last month when I passed. I was getting a bit nervous as we had strayed into the exclusion zone.
After passing under the ash cloud a rain squall was bringing the ash down - the boat was a mess by the time we had anchored in Little Bay
Bosun Higgs
N/A
I reckon Rum Pirate's post is useful to remind people to take these silly regulations seriously when the temptation must be to treat these banana republics ( or banana colonies) like something out of Gilbert and Sullivan.
And given our colonial history there must be an element of " we'll show these rich honkies who is boss now" on the part of the officials .
So maybe best to keep your head down and not make waves
And given our colonial history there must be an element of " we'll show these rich honkies who is boss now" on the part of the officials .
So maybe best to keep your head down and not make waves
Babylon
Well-Known Member
I was really enjoying reading this thread - transported in my imagination to a place I've never been - until TCM's outburst brought me rudely back to Britain.
Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
I went to see Michael McIntyre recently. I love the bit in his show which he sums up as "Think Pr*ck, Say Tut"
That makes my response "Tut"
Malabar
Well-Known Member
Do Trinidad waters extend out 12, 50, 100 or more miles?
12 Miles is the basic limit (but in practice, coming south through the islands); just make sure when approaching that you don't come in and anchor off out of working hours if at all possible.
Rum_Pirate
Well-Known Member
Don't they work your speed back and charge from the time you entered the waters so it is virtually impossible to avoid paying overtime?
mandlmaunder
Well-Known Member
In our seven years of cruising the Caribbean the hardest place to clear in and out of has been Trinidad, Chagueramos is the least pleasant but we still managed to clear in and out.
Every time we arrive into a country I get clean and change into smart shorts and shirt and when I get to the offices I always ask how the officers day is going and what procedure they want me to follow , and if anything has changed since my last visit I will ask for and always get assistance in the form filling procedure.
As long as you are curtious and polite (politeness is a highly valued commodity) all else will come right in the end.
Every officer you deal with has the right to refuse you entry to their country and if you are not seen to be the sort of person they want on their island you will not be allowed.
I have on more than one occasion watched a yotty shout and protest with the officials and they (the yotty) never win.
If you dont like a countries clearing procedure then the next is only 20 to 90 miles away!.
I still see clearing in and out as part of the adventure of the Caribbean and the individual Island Countries.
Mark
Every time we arrive into a country I get clean and change into smart shorts and shirt and when I get to the offices I always ask how the officers day is going and what procedure they want me to follow , and if anything has changed since my last visit I will ask for and always get assistance in the form filling procedure.
As long as you are curtious and polite (politeness is a highly valued commodity) all else will come right in the end.
Every officer you deal with has the right to refuse you entry to their country and if you are not seen to be the sort of person they want on their island you will not be allowed.
I have on more than one occasion watched a yotty shout and protest with the officials and they (the yotty) never win.
If you dont like a countries clearing procedure then the next is only 20 to 90 miles away!.
I still see clearing in and out as part of the adventure of the Caribbean and the individual Island Countries.
Mark
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TradewindSailor
Well-Known Member
I've never had any trouble in Chagaramas, Trinidad; but then I was last there in 2008. I've been in and out several times, and would almost be on first name terms with the officials except for the fact they keep changing. I have witnessed them giving Americans the runaround though ... most entertaining as they deserved it! 
BrianH
Well-Known Member
I have witnessed them giving Americans the runaround though ... most entertaining as they deserved it!
They do when what happens in the US Caribbean territories is considered.
Out of 13 different Caribbean countries over the last three months the worst has to be checking out of San Juan, Puerto Rico - if one doesn't count entering the US Virgin Islands at Cruz Bay, St John, where we were refused entry on visa grounds. This was eventually resolved as recounted in message #13.
Berthed In the Club Náutico de San Juan I was given a pamphlet that stated that the only access for entering and clearing was via a telephone number. Being an 800 number this was not accessible by European cell phones but the receptionist at the marina called from the office and I reached a certain "Officer Rey" who said all particulars had to be given over the phone. As there were six people on board and all passport details had to be laboriously spelled out including home addresses, plus details of the boat, this took a while. I was asked the number from where I was calling, told to wait and would be called back.
The rest of the morning was spent in the marina office waiting then calling, first Officer Rey then different other officials, trying to get the clearance procedure moving - we had four people with flights out of the Dominican Republic in three days so our schedule was tight.
Three times I had to give passport particulars again to different contacts, each of whom requested our "Cruising Permit" details and to each I had to reply that we had no cruising permit - nothing having been said about it when entering at St John. Eventually I was told that we would be visited by Customs and Border Protection (Homeland Security) and to wait for them.
An hour later I'm standing on the pier by the boat and see something out of a wild west movie - three black-clad figures with gun holsters hanging low on their hips were moving purposely along the pier towards me - Customs and Border Protection guards.
The interrogation was lengthy, every point had to be referred to a superior by mobile phone. One of the crew had a Hungarian passport - that needed ages before they were informed that Hungary was in the EU and eligible for the Visa Waiver Program, despite the entry visa stamp from St John.
When they found that we didn't have a Cruising Permit, that really caused a major problem and lengthy phone conversations. I was told that a Cruising Permit had to be bought (big bucks, they said) and that could only be obtained from the Customs House, down in the old port area. Another hour later after the geographically-challenged taxi driver had found the Customs House, we met the only efficient member of the team - a lady who said that if we were staying less than 24 hours then we didn't need a Cruising Permit. She also handled our clearance immediately.
We lost a day with that circus and the pity is that the whole procedure does not allow a visit to the lady in the Custom House without being dealt with by the clowns of "Customs and Border Protection and Homeland Security".
At no point could I be accused of impolite behaviour or responses, other than calling repeatedly when the time stated for being called back had more than been exceeded. I am always conscious of being courteous to officials and leant over backwards with the arrogant, strutting "men in black" that were so difficult, even to using my rusty Spanish in conversing with them as only one had good English.
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john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
I am sorely tempted to say, "...and your point is?" When faced with the bureaucratic inefficiencies of another country I have always shrugged my shoulders inwardly and carried on being polite. Moaning won't do any good at all and can only serve to make your wait even longer. There are lots of things I don't like about the culture of UK, but its part of the deal. No cruising permit? - I guess the 'officials' just didn't know what to do and at least you stayed polite to the end.
Experienceing
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
Having read this thread I am quite put off sailing in the Caribbean. Who want to go through all that in holiday?
BrianH
Well-Known Member
No point really, other than to contribute to a thread that consists of personal reminisces of bureaucracy of entering and clearing Caribbean countries in general. Agreed it was too long a post but then I wasn't guilty of excessive quoting
.This particular post could assist someone who does wish to clear from San Juan to allow more time than usual - the marina personnel told me it can take more than a day before clearance is granted and one of the interlocutors I reached on the phone said the delay was because they were dealing with a large backlog - they probably were dealing with the commercial shipping too, although that was difficult to reconcile with the gang of three that visited and didn't seem in much of a hurry.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Fair comment - and hopefully your account will help others who are thinking of visiting. On first reading, I wasn't sure whether you were having a moan about their work practices.No point really, other than to contribute to a thread that consists of personal reminisces of bureaucracy of entering and clearing Caribbean countries in general. Agreed it was too long a post but then I wasn't guilty of excessive quoting
This particular post could assist someone who does wish to clear from San Juan to allow more time than usual - the marina personnel told me it can take more than a day before clearance is granted and one of the interlocutors I reached on the phone said the delay was because they were dealing with a large backlog - they probably were dealing with the commercial shipping too, although that was difficult to reconcile with the gang of three that visited and didn't seem in much of a hurry.
Personally I think the checking in and out is all part of the fun(?) and I very much support RumPirates original plea to do things properly - otherwise it just annoys the officials and makes life difficult for the rest of us.
binch
Well-Known Member
For Rum Pirate
If you are in Montserrat at the moment, please give Nigel our regards and tell him to get off the ground.
If you are in Montserrat at the moment, please give Nigel our regards and tell him to get off the ground.
TradewindSailor
Well-Known Member
Hey ..... Don't be put off by the Caribbean Customs and Immigration. I have never found it a hassle ..... and I've been doing it for years.
As for Homeland Security (USA):
I flew into Big Island Hawaii with 12 large units of baggage. The carrousel was broken so the airport staff dumped the bags in a carpark by the terminal. No trolleys were allowed in to pick up the baggage.
I got my hire car. HS officers refused to allow me to enter the carpark to load the bags, and then they refused permission to allow me to leave the car unattended in curb-side parking whilst I carried the baggage one-by-one to the car. The matter was resolved when I asked the senior officer politely if he could specify a solution to the problem ...... he looked shocked, he must have thought I was going to abuse him so he could beat me up and put the cuffs on. Instead he turned his back and told me to get on with it!
As for Homeland Security (USA):
I flew into Big Island Hawaii with 12 large units of baggage. The carrousel was broken so the airport staff dumped the bags in a carpark by the terminal. No trolleys were allowed in to pick up the baggage.
I got my hire car. HS officers refused to allow me to enter the carpark to load the bags, and then they refused permission to allow me to leave the car unattended in curb-side parking whilst I carried the baggage one-by-one to the car. The matter was resolved when I asked the senior officer politely if he could specify a solution to the problem ...... he looked shocked, he must have thought I was going to abuse him so he could beat me up and put the cuffs on. Instead he turned his back and told me to get on with it!