Visiting France for EU citizen owned, UK flag vessel

[slawosz]

Hi,
could someone give me an advice? I own UK flag vessel, as I am UK resident, but at the same time I have EU passport. I wonder what are French/Belgium/Dutch formalities in such case?

 

[Irish Rover]

Hi,
could someone give me an advice? I own UK flag vessel, as I am UK resident, but at the same time I have EU passport. I wonder what are French/Belgium/Dutch formalities in such case?

I imagine the procedure is broadly the same throughout the EU in which case my experience may be of benefit to you. I'm an Irish citizen resident in Turkey and I regularly visit Greece with my now Turkish flagged boat [previously Jersey flag]. On arrival I apply for Temporary Admission - an 18 month transit log -. The authorities will require clear proof you are resident outside the EU.

 

[TiggerToo]

Hi,
could someone give me an advice? I own UK flag vessel, as I am UK resident, but at the same time I have EU passport. I wonder what are French/Belgium/Dutch formalities in such case?

I would also be interested. I am in the same position....

Can anyone definitely tell us?

 

[ithet]

I could be in the same position if I choose to get a different passport. But shorely the position is the same as for any UK boat and crew visiting from UK, i.e. make sure the boat has correct documents particularly SSR. The crew are a separate issue, and the EU citizen does not need to have a passport stamp.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

If you have an EU country passport that means you are a national of that country and entitled to free movement throughout the EU, it's you that the rules (90/180) apply to not the boat. I expect that you may be asked to show your passport and demonstrate you are an EU citizen. If you bring UK crew then they are going to have to get their passports stamped and you will have to go through the departure and arrival process. If you leave the boat ( you would need to check the time) then it would become liable for European VAT.

 

[Irish Rover]

As an EU citizen I'd expect the OP knows his rights as regards personal entry into the EU and assume therefore his query relates to the formalities for his UK based boat. Be good if he confirmed or otherwise before the thread goes off on a tangent.

 

[westernman]

Careful. Maybe.

If you use your EU passport and are bringing a non EU VAT paid boat into the EU, they might come after you for import taxes and VAT unless you have proof you are not resident.

No idea what proof would be required. France usually uses electricity bills as proof of residence - but they might not want to accept something foreign in a language other than French.

 

[Irish Rover]

Careful. Maybe.

If you use your EU passport and are bringing a non EU VAT paid boat into the EU, they might come after you for import taxes and VAT unless you have proof you are not resident.

No idea what proof would be required. France usually uses electricity bills as proof of residence - but they might not want to accept something foreign in a language other than French.

Definitely. An EU citizen applying for TA for his boat will definitely be put through the hoops to prove residency outside the EU. On one occasion in Greece after showing all my papers including my Turkish permanent residency ID ETC the customs officer asked me for my phone number and called to make sure my Turkish no was genuine.

 

[slawosz]

Thanks for the answer!

Careful. Maybe.

If you use your EU passport and are bringing a non EU VAT paid boat into the EU, they might come after you for import taxes and VAT unless you have proof you are not resident.

No idea what proof would be required. France usually uses electricity bills as proof of residence - but they might not want to accept something foreign in a language other than French.

Right, this is a weird situation I am afraid. That someone decides to arrest the boat, just because. Could be very stressful... I am not going to leave the boat for more than few hours. Funny thing, UK does not have formal residency proofs like ID cards. I mean, I could show the bill but there is non - zero chance that someone will be in bad bad mood...

 

[Irish Rover]

Thanks for the answer!

Right, this is a weird situation I am afraid. That someone decides to arrest the boat, just because. Could be very stressful... I am not going to leave the boat for more than few hours. Funny thing, UK does not have formal residency proofs like ID cards. I mean, I could show the bill but there is non - zero chance that someone will be in bad bad mood...

If your evidence of UK residency is genuine then I doubt you'll have a problem but, in any event, my understanding is, worst case scenario, they give you a short term [30 days I think) transit log to facilitate you leaving the EU.

 

[westernman]

Thanks for the answer!

Right, this is a weird situation I am afraid. That someone decides to arrest the boat, just because. Could be very stressful... I am not going to leave the boat for more than few hours. Funny thing, UK does not have formal residency proofs like ID cards. I mean, I could show the bill but there is non - zero chance that someone will be in bad bad mood...

May be best to not own up to having an EU passport and going through the same hoops as everyone else???

 

[slawosz]

May be best to not own up to having an EU passport and going through the same hoops as everyone else???

I am not sure what you mean. I am trying to avoid some troubles as my situation is unique. I think I will join RYA to ask for advice.

 

[Graham376]

I think Irish Rover summed it up in #2. If you are a citizen of the country you are visiting you may have to prove you are resident elsewhere but can't see why you would have problems elsewhere, the boat's entitled to 18 months TA.

Our UK reg boat is in Portugal, my wife is a citizen and named on SSR plus I have residence. We've had documents (passports, SSR & insurance) inspected before and since Brexit and have never been questioned about or had to produce evidence of VAT status.

 

[st599]

I think Irish Rover summed it up in #2. If you are a citizen of the country you are visiting you may have to prove you are resident elsewhere but can't see why you would have problems elsewhere, the boat's entitled to 18 months TA.

But TA's not available to an EU resident bringing goods in to the EU (or a UK resident bringing goods in to the UK)

 

[Graham376]

But TA's not available to an EU resident bringing goods in to the EU (or a UK resident bringing goods in to the UK)

The OP is a UK resident visiting the EU in his UK boat so is quite entitled to TA.

 

[st599]

The OP is a UK resident visiting the EU in his UK boat so is quite entitled to TA.

Indeed, but as an EU citizen, he will have to prove his UK residency status throughout the EU, not just in one specific country.

 

[Graham376]

Indeed, but as an EU citizen, he will have to prove his UK residency status throughout the EU, not just in one specific country.

I don't know where you get that idea. We have several friends with UK boats and EU (Irish) passports who never have problems, nor as I mentioned above does my EU citizen wife who is named on our SSR.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

There's always been a small risk that something could go wrong - red diesel in Belgium/Germany, can't produce your SSR certificate, whatever. I don't think the risk is any higher than it ever was though some people still seem to be trying to find problems to tell everyone about whilst the vast majority of us just get on with it - that's just how people are. Arresting a yacht is not something that can be done by a copper wondering past in most countries - it requires other judicial parties to get involved too. As long as you haven't got a Russian passport I wouldn't worry.

You don't have an EU passport though, you have a passport issued by a member state of the EU - that's relevant because residency is something that the tax authorities will also be interested in. Whilst I don't think they can provide proof of residency, evidence that the taxman in the passport-issuing state considers you a resident in the UK would probably go a long way to satisfying anyone you are likely to meet on the quayside.

 

[Irish Rover]

There's always been a small risk that something could go wrong - red diesel in Belgium/Germany, can't produce your SSR certificate, whatever. I don't think the risk is any higher than it ever was though some people still seem to be trying to find problems to tell everyone about whilst the vast majority of us just get on with it - that's just how people are. Arresting a yacht is not something that can be done by a copper wondering past in most countries - it requires other judicial parties to get involved too. As long as you haven't got a Russian passport I wouldn't worry.

You don't have an EU passport though, you have a passport issued by a member state of the EU - that's relevant because residency is something that the tax authorities will also be interested in. Whilst I don't think they can provide proof of residency, evidence that the taxman in the passport-issuing state considers you a resident in the UK would probably go a long way to satisfying anyone you are likely to meet on the quayside.

Most of what you say makes absolute sense but I I think the notion of someone on the quayside inquiring about your tax residency is fanciful [unless, of course, you're not legit and on some watch list]. The Irish tax man knows I'm not resident in Ireland but he doesn't need to know where I'm resident and certainly wouldn't give me a certificate or any written statement to say I'm resident in Turkey.
The answer to the question raised by the OP is quite simple - you can take your boat to the EU under Temporary Admission - and while the customs authorities in different countries may have different forms or approaches the scheme is an EU scheme and not a national one. Decide in which country you intend to enter the EU and call the customs in advance to see what forms and documents they require.

 

[westernman]

Indeed, but as an EU citizen, he will have to prove his UK residency status throughout the EU, not just in one specific country.

No. Just in the first country he arrives at.

Where, if he were resident in the EU (which customs officials might think if he presented an EU passport to immigration), he would have to pay import taxes and VAT there.

I.e. if he uses his EU passport, he should be prepared to have acceptable proof that he is resident in the UK.
No idea what acceptable might be.

Hence my suggestion to avoid the issue by using his UK passport with the minor inconvenience of getting it stamped in and out.