Viking's Odin anchor vs Ultra and the original Viking anchor

[Neeves]

I'm travelling in China and there are restrictions on use of the internet, google is banned as are some other sites but

Steve Godwin aka the Panope Videos has, come out of retirement (?) and made a video, no 156, comparing Viking's Odin anchor with Ultra and the original Viking.

I have seen about 30% of the video and was then cut off. But if you Google you might gain access. I was cut off at the section where he does the cobblestone testing. I also did a quick scan before looking at the early parts of the vid (I anticipated problems) but did not see a summary spreadsheet.

If I find a way of watching the whole video and posting a link - I will do so.

Or as some members are supportive of Ukraine, which is where Viking has based its production, and someone might post the link

Jonathan

 

[TSB240]

Link

 

[Trident]

He seemed less impressed with the Odin than the Viking (which he still rates as the best over all) and notes that the Odin would not be as good as the Ultra if you have to have a non roll bar , though that does ignore that the Odin is under half the price of the Ultra!

 

[noelex]

Arguably, the most important parameter for a modern primary anchor is a consistently good performance over the range of substrates and situations likely to be encountered.

Unfortunately, in this test, the Odin did not do particularly well in this department.

 

[Neeves]

For some reason I cannot post links but believe a search will turn up links in Sailing Anarachy

 

[Dockhead]

Steve's work is magnificent, but my experience slightly contradicts his. I've been using a 100 lb. Ultra for some years now. I like it very much! But its performance gives a way a noticeable bit to the Spade. Not a huge amount, but a bit.

Nevertheless my 100 lb. Spade lies disassembled in the bilge while the Ultra graces my bow roller -- because it doesn't rust!

 

[geem]

Steve's work is magnificent, but my experience slightly contradicts his. I've been using a 100 lb. Ultra for some years now. I like it very much! But its performance gives a way a noticeable bit to the Spade. Not a huge amount, but a bit.

Nevertheless my 100 lb. Spade lies disassembled in the bilge while the Ultra graces my bow roller -- because it doesn't rust!

I agree with you about rusty Spades. Their galvanising is appalling. My new one didn't make it to 12 months old before it was rusty!
I had it regalvanised by Spin Galvanisers in Rotherham. So far so good. Its showing no signs of corrosion yet.
I used my own yellow paint to replicate what was on it originally as that came of pretty dam quick. That is also looking far better than the original paint

 

[Dockhead]

I agree with you about rusty Spades. Their galvanising is appalling. My new one didn't make it to 12 months old before it was rusty!
I had it regalvanised by Spin Galvanisers in Rotherham. So far so good. Its showing no signs of corrosion yet.
I used my own yellow paint to replicate what was on it originally as that came of pretty dam quick. That is also looking far better than the original paint

Did the Rotherham guys melt out the lead ballast, and put it back?

That's a hot tip, if so.

 

[noelex]

Steve's work is magnificent, but my experience slightly contradicts his. I've been using a 100 lb. Ultra for some years now. I like it very much! But its performance gives a way a noticeable bit to the Spade. Not a huge amount, but a bit.

I spend a lot of time observing anchors underwater, and this coincides with my assessment. The Ultra is a very good anchor, but despite the high price, it does not quite match the brilliance of the steel Spade.

I agree with Steve that the better rollbar anchors are still the highest-performing anchors, but unfortunately, they cannot be fitted to some boats.

Below is an example of subpar performance of the Ultra anchor to illustrate the point. This was at a scope of 3:1, but you can see from the puffs of sand that the anchor is dragging in only 15 knots, gusting 25 knots. The anchor was gradually moving backwards without burying deeper.

There are other examples where the Ultra is doing well, but overall, from a performance perspective, I would rate it slightly below the steel Spade.

 

[Dockhead]

I spend a lot of time observing anchors underwater, and this coincides with my assessment. The Ultra is a very good anchor, but despite the high price, it does not quite match the brilliance of the steel Spade.

The price is not for performance, but because it's STAINLESS.

Why this means a several thousand euro price difference, I'm not sure. 316 stainless costs 3 or 4 thousand dollars per tonne. A whole lot more than carbon steel, but still -- that's only 3 or 4 dollars per kilo. So -- what, 200 dollars at most for a 100 pound anchor? So why do they cost many thousands, several x compared to carbon steel?

 

[geem]

Did the Rotherham guys melt out the lead ballast, and put it back?

That's a hot tip, if so.

No, I did that. It was pretty easy. I borrowed a big burner that roofers use to do bitumen on flat roofs. It made short work of it. I repeated the procedure to put it back. I then sealed ithe lead inwith epoxy.
The galvanisers charge by weight. Once the lead was out, the cost of galvanising was about £45!

 

[Neeves]

You need to be careful when you melt out the lead. When they make Spade they seem to galvanise (poorly) hanging the flukes at the toe. There is a hole, maybe 1mm, through the toe through which they thread the wire and then hang the anchors 'heel down'. When you melt out the lead the, when I did it, the lead spurted out of the holes in the toe as a molten lead fountain. As Geem did, I melted the lead back and then sealed with resin.

I used a cheap blow torch that fits on those little Korean BBQ gas stoves gas bottles.

Its easy to melt the lead out and replace. It takes time, patience and a complete absence of interruptions.

Noelex picture of the 'subpar' Ultra - we don't know if the Ultra had a bit of seaweed wrapped round its toe. Dragging Ultras are simply not commonplace. Stainless anchors not only incur the high raw material costs - but also a bit more care in fabrication plus the costs of polishing. Glitz is very important for some owners (and they are more than willing to invest in the jewellery). Just walk round any marina and Ultras adorn the bow rollers of many a stink pot - commonly paired with stainless chain - in fact for the top end MoBos Ultra are de rigour.

Jonathan

 

[geem]

You need to be careful when you melt out the lead. When they make Spade they seem to galvanise (poorly) hanging the flukes at the toe. There is a hole, maybe 1mm, through the toe through which they thread the wire and then hang the anchors 'heel down'. When you melt out the lead the, when I did it, the lead spurted out of the holes in the toe as a molten lead fountain. As Geem did, I melted the lead back and then sealed with resin.

I used a cheap blow torch that fits on those little Korean BBQ gas stoves gas bottles.

Its easy to melt the lead out and replace. It takes time, patience and a complete absence of interruptions.

Noelex picture of the 'subpar' Ultra - we don't know if the Ultra had a bit of seaweed wrapped round its toe. Dragging Ultras are simply not commonplace. Stainless anchors not only incur the high raw material costs - but also a bit more care in fabrication plus the costs of polishing. Glitz is very important for some owners (and they are more than willing to invest in the jewellery). Just walk round any marina and Ultras adorn the bow rollers of many a stink pot - commonly paired with stainless chain - in fact for the top end MoBos Ultra are de rigour.

Jonathan

Nobody ever see my anchor. I am either at sea or at anchor.
I would like an anchor than doesn't rust but I wouldn't ever buy s/s for bling

 

[Neeves]

The other big cost for production of Ultra, contributing to cost and not a procedure followed by Spade is that they reinforce the shank.

The shank is hollow, reducing weight and adds buoyancy in the right location such that most of the weight is the fluke and the ballast is in the toe. Being hollow a few early Ultra shanks bent and Ultra introduced a web of stainless inside the shank, welded to the internal slides of the shank and the 'top and bottom' of the shank to beef it up. Like Ultras that drag Ultras that have bent shanks are simply not in the news (and bad news normally travels fast) - so the upgrade seems to work

I have some pictures of the strengthening inside the shank but I'm still in China and the picture is on another computer. I have still not seen the vid in total but am surprised no-one has mentioned the internal shank strengthening - its a pretty critical, imaginative and expensive and not a feature you can ignore.

On dragging Ultras - if I'd spent that amount of money on an anchor that is ostensibly no better than, say - the Panone hero (see the video introduction in which Steve cannot praise Viking enough) - viz Viking - and my Ultras was prone to dragging I'd want answers.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Nobody ever see my anchor. I am either at sea or at anchor.
I would like an anchor than doesn't rust but I wouldn't ever buy s/s for bling

Quote 'Nobody ever see my anchor.'

Your privacy does not extend far. Noelex and his cohorts are always snooping around - your anchor could one day be in the public domain.


You are not alone. I see enough Ultras on the bow rollers of MoBos to know that, in Australia at least, their market hold is in power boats not sail. But as Dockhead says its a good anchor and it does not rust. I think there are enough 'good' anchors and anyone who wants technical (or reputed excellence) in the available range of galvanised anchors has plenty of choice without thinking of either Spade or Ultra in stainless.

One 'technical' advantage of Ultra (or stainless) is that it does not carry so much mud as gal and stainless is easier to clean. If someone gave me one - I would not hesitate in using an Ultra as my primary. As no-one is likely to give me one - I'll stick to Viking and Odin.

It does not always boil down to 'performance' - fit can be the deciding factor. Viking does not fit many multihull bow rollers, Odin is perfect.

Jonathan

 

[geem]

Quote 'Nobody ever see my anchor.'

Your privacy does not extend far. Noelex and his cohorts are always snooping around - your anchor could one day be in the public domain.


You are not alone. I see enough Ultras on the bow rollers of MoBos to know that, in Australia at least, their market hold is in power boats not sail. But as Dockhead says its a good anchor and it does not rust. I think there are enough 'good' anchors and anyone who wants technical (or reputed excellence) in the available range of galvanised anchors has plenty of choice without thinking of either Spade or Ultra in stainless.

One 'technical' advantage of Ultra (or stainless) is that it does not carry so much mud as gal and stainless is easier to clean. If someone gave me one - I would not hesitate in using an Ultra as my primary. As no-one is likely to give me one - I'll stick to Viking and Odin.

It does not always boil down to 'performance' - fit can be the deciding factor. Viking does not fit many multihull bow rollers, Odin is perfect.

Jonathan

Interestingly, my galvanising from Spin Galvanising is far smoother than the original crappy Spade galvanising. I guess that helps with mud sliding off.
I will be reporting on how long this new galvanising lasts since we have followed the exact same route and time line as our last crossing of the pond in 2021. The Spade was rusty within 12 months

 

[noelex]

Noelex picture of the 'subpar' Ultra - we don't know if the Ultra had a bit of seaweed wrapped round its toe.

Yes, I am only showing one example in this post, but I have seen photographed many more to draw my conclusions. The photo below is just one more example I observed of a less than brilliant performance. It shows an Ultra not coping well with only light weed. It had slowly dragged about 15m at this stage. You can see from the cloud of disturbed substrate that it was still slowly moving. 8m @ 6:1.

The best anchors can consistently penetrate much thicker weed than this without any difficulty.

However, I have also seen some excellent performances by the Ultra. Overall, I would rate it as a very good anchor. When observing the anchor underwater, it is easy to see it vastly superior to the majority of models, but it is not as good as the steel Spade or the better roll bar models.

 

[noelex]

Being hollow a few early Ultra shanks bent and Ultra introduced a web of stainless inside the shank, welded to the internal slides of the shank and the 'top and bottom' of the shank to beef it up. Like Ultras that drag Ultras that have bent shanks are simply not in the news (and bad news normally travels fast) - so the upgrade seems to work

I have some pictures of the strengthening inside the shank but I'm still in China and the picture is on another computer. I have still not seen the vid in total but am surprised no-one has mentioned the internal shank strengthening - its a pretty critical, imaginative and expensive and not a feature you can ignore.

This is a photo I took of an Ultra anchor that has been cut in half (by Ultra, I am not that silly ) to show the construction.

The reinforcement can be seen. It is a simple internal stainless stringer. The Ultra was originally released without this reinforcement; it was added after some of the early models bent. The bent anchors were replaced by Ultra, but if you are considering buying this model second hand, it would be worth checking if this improvement is incorporated. All the Ultra models have a serial number (a great idea that should be copied by other manufacturers), so presumably the manufacturer should be able to tell you if a particular unit has the upgrade.