Victron Bluetooth Smart Charger ... IP22 3 output version

[Refueler]

This is a question that I hope can be answered without replies pushing to go all one way or all other way ... the setup asked about is as asked ...

I have Victron IP22 Bluetooth Smart Charger with 3 outputs.

At present I have 3x 90 AH Lead Acids as ... 1 for engine start .. 2 as a bank to power domestics / nav gear etc.

Charging is via the Victron using two outputs
+ a Solar panel on deck - believed to feed domestic bank
+ standard alternator on Yanmar 2GM to start battery - with charge relay allowing both 'banks' to be charged without bleeding to each other ...

The domestic bank has basically given up and depletes fast ... when I bought the boat - I noted a spare battery in the locker under the nav seat ! Now I know why that was there !!

The question is .....

If I was to pry open my wallet and buy two Li batterys to replace the domestics - giving me an increased AH capacity etc. but leave the Lead Acid for starter ... >>>

Can the Victron actually look after the two types ? I know the Victron can look after Lead Acid OR Li ... but can it do the combination ? I assume if I buy 'drop-in' Li batts - this should work ...

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

This is a question that I hope can be answered without replies pushing to go all one way or all other way ... the setup asked about is as asked ...

I have Victron IP22 Bluetooth Smart Charger with 3 outputs.

At present I have 3x 90 AH Lead Acids as ... 1 for engine start .. 2 as a bank to power domestics / nav gear etc.

Charging is via the Victron using two outputs
+ a Solar panel on deck - believed to feed domestic bank
+ standard alternator on Yanmar 2GM to start battery - with charge relay allowing both 'banks' to be charged without bleeding to each other ...

The domestic bank has basically given up and depletes fast ... when I bought the boat - I noted a spare battery in the locker under the nav seat ! Now I know why that was there !!

The question is .....

If I was to pry open my wallet and buy two Li batterys to replace the domestics - giving me an increased AH capacity etc. but leave the Lead Acid for starter ... >>>

Can the Victron actually look after the two types ? I know the Victron can look after Lead Acid OR Li ... but can it do the combination ? I assume if I buy 'drop-in' Li batts - this should work ...

Looking at the data sheet, I would say that all three outputs are set similarly and not programable individually, No doubt PR who is the oracle on such things will give a definitive on that. However, in the meantime why not have a play with the settings and see what that tells you?
Edit : - You could fit a truck battery

 

[Refueler]

Looking at the data sheet, I would say that all three outputs are set similarly and not programable individually, No doubt PR who is the oracle on such things will give a definitive on that. However, in the meantime why not have a play with the settings and see what that tells you?

Settings and manual are so unclear about it .. giving me impression that they expect all Li or all Lead Acid ... not mix. I don't really want to start adding monitors . extras ...

My original intention .. which still plays 60-40 .. is to replace the domestics with a couple of new Lead Acids and also change out the solar panel - which I do not think is performing as well as it should.

Due to various threads on the forums - I do look at Li installs ... especially that Swedish Archipelago - you can be away from mains charging for days .. relying on short engine runs and solar.

 

[lustyd]

The three outputs not only use the same settings they also use the same algorithm so staging will be across all three.
The 1+1 is better in this scenario as it’s one full profile charger plus a trickle charge for the engine start. Obviously not an option so you’ll need to make some decisions. Either choose one to charge, set the settings to be safe for both, or get new lead batteries. Alternatively get a small cheap trickle charger for the engine start

 

[chris-s]

As pointed out, no that charger won’t support mixed chemistry banks. Since you might also want to consider charging the lithiums from the alternator then you might consider a dc to dc charger between start battery and lithiums. You can then use the shore charger solely to charge the start battery which could also keep the lithiums topped up via the dc-dc.
This topic comes up almost weekly and the threads discuss all manner of options for this sort of scenario.

 

[Refueler]

Having coughed up the 'ackers' for the Victron ... I am not going to cough up again for more chargers ....

The post was question-time ... so I have the answer and also has pretty well confirmed my path of replacing with new Lead Acids .... Li will be relegated to the future !!

 

[lustyd]

I wouldn't write off lithium just yet, the difference using it is definitely worth some short term expense.

The additional charger I was suggesting is this sort of thing just to trickle charge the engine battery, which will be full anyway thanks to the alternator, so doesn't need anything powerful, expensive, or clever. Your 3 output charger would be just fine for the lithiums, and you'd want as much available current as possible when refilling a lithium bank which if you end up with 200Ah would take many hours to charge on a normal 30A charger (about 5-6 hours from 20%).

 

[chris-s]

Having coughed up the 'ackers' for the Victron ... I am not going to cough up again for more chargers ....

The post was question-time ... so I have the answer and also has pretty well confirmed my path of replacing with new Lead Acids .... Li will be relegated to the future !!

Bah humbug!

 

[Momac]

Just another note that (as others have said) my understanding is the Victron charger is one battery type per charger.

You can only set the battery type for the charger and not for each output.
If each out put was different the cost of the charger would be much higher as it would effectively be three chargers in one unit.

But its a very good charger and has looked after my batteries nicely as they seem to be lasting well compared performance with my previous charger which was probably faulty well before it eventually packed up. And the Victron charger was not too expensive.

 

[Refueler]

I wouldn't write off lithium just yet, the difference using it is definitely worth some short term expense.

The additional charger I was suggesting is this sort of thing just to trickle charge the engine battery, which will be full anyway thanks to the alternator, so doesn't need anything powerful, expensive, or clever. Your 3 output charger would be just fine for the lithiums, and you'd want as much available current as possible when refilling a lithium bank which if you end up with 200Ah would take many hours to charge on a normal 30A charger (about 5-6 hours from 20%).

I have loads of smart chargers ... its one thing I have plenty of !

Lots to think about ...

 

[lustyd]

I have loads of smart chargers ... its one thing I have plenty of !

Lots to think about ...

In that case I’d definitely lean towards the lithium if you have the space for two chargers. Nothing wrong with lead but lithium is nicer in every way except cost

 

[ithet]

I wouldn't write off lithium just yet, the difference using it is definitely worth some short term expense.

The additional charger I was suggesting is this sort of thing just to trickle charge the engine battery, which will be full anyway thanks to the alternator, so doesn't need anything powerful, expensive, or clever. Your 3 output charger would be just fine for the lithiums, and you'd want as much available current as possible when refilling a lithium bank which if you end up with 200Ah would take many hours to charge on a normal 30A charger (about 5-6 hours from 20%).

The use of a trickle charger should be considered even with an all LA setup.

I am looking at this after the new Victron charger (single output ip67 but wired through a Cyrix VSR, so similar to the OP setup in effect) seriously overcharged a dying start battery - filling cabin with sulphur fumes. I would then wire the VSR to only work with engine running (as has been previously suggested on here) and wire the solar direct to house bank.

 

[PaulRainbow]

This is a question that I hope can be answered without replies pushing to go all one way or all other way ... the setup asked about is as asked ...

I have Victron IP22 Bluetooth Smart Charger with 3 outputs.

At present I have 3x 90 AH Lead Acids as ... 1 for engine start .. 2 as a bank to power domestics / nav gear etc.

Charging is via the Victron using two outputs
+ a Solar panel on deck - believed to feed domestic bank
+ standard alternator on Yanmar 2GM to start battery - with charge relay allowing both 'banks' to be charged without bleeding to each other ...

The domestic bank has basically given up and depletes fast ... when I bought the boat - I noted a spare battery in the locker under the nav seat ! Now I know why that was there !!

The question is .....

If I was to pry open my wallet and buy two Li batterys to replace the domestics - giving me an increased AH capacity etc. but leave the Lead Acid for starter ... >>>

Can the Victron actually look after the two types ? I know the Victron can look after Lead Acid OR Li ... but can it do the combination ? I assume if I buy 'drop-in' Li batts - this should work ...

As others have said, it's a single charger with 3 outputs separated by diodes. You can only have one profile.

Lithium profile, 14.3V absorption, 13.3V float and a few tweaks on some other settings. (Don't use Victrons standard profiles for Lithium).

If i was setting a LA profile i'd use 14.4V and 13.4V

Your starter battery would be fine.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

As others have said, it's a single charger with 3 outputs separated by diodes. You can only have one profile.

Lithium profile, 14.3V absorption, 13.3V float and a few tweaks on some other settings. (Don't use Victrons standard profiles for Lithium).

If i was setting a LA profile i'd use 14.4V and 13.4V

Your starter battery would be fine.

This was my thought too. A lead acid won't die at 14.4v even if the lithium bank is very low it will still charge fast so I don't think there is a risk of boiling the start battery.

 

[PaulRainbow]

The use of a trickle charger should be considered even with an all LA setup.

I am looking at this after the new Victron charger (single output ip67 but wired through a Cyrix VSR, so similar to the OP setup in effect) seriously overcharged a dying start battery - filling cabin with sulphur fumes.

That will be a shorted cell in the engine battery, effectively making it a 10V battery, which wouldn't like a 14.4V charge. It gives of hydrogen, which can cause the battery to explode if there's a spark, it needs handling with great care. Isolate it and allow it to cool and the gas to disperse before going anywhere near it.

I would then wire the VSR to only work with engine running (as has been previously suggested on here) and wire the solar direct to house bank.

The cover charging the domestic from the alternator, but doesn't allow a shore charger to charge the engine battery, unless of course you fit the trickle charger you mention. None of the above will stop one domestic battery that's part of a bank from doing the same thing from any of its charging sources though.

One good feature of Lithium that's usually overlooked is that the BMS will not allow this to happen.

 

[ithet]

That will be a shorted cell in the engine battery, effectively making it a 10V battery, which wouldn't like a 14.4V charge. It gives of hydrogen, which can cause the battery to explode if there's a spark, it needs handling with great care. Isolate it and allow it to cool and the gas to disperse before going anywhere near it.

Yes, that was two years ago, you gave some advice then, thanks. The CO alarm woke us. Opened up all hatches and let the battery cool completely before moving. But it has left me somewhat wary of this happening again with the 25A charger. The original 10A one possibly would not have created such an issue.

The cover charging the domestic from the alternator, but doesn't allow a shore charger to charge the engine battery, unless of course you fit the trickle charger you mention. None of the above will stop one domestic battery that's part of a bank from doing the same thing from any of its

Exactly, I was saying why I would be more comfortable with the starter on a trickle, so shore charge does not use VSR and no chance of overcharging a dying start battery. I assume (maybe incorrect) that a domestic battery in a bank will be protected somewhat by of the others (I have three 90Ah) so charger would not give the high output?

charging sources though.

One good feature of Lithium that's usually overlooked is that the BMS will not allow this to happen.

I bought the new house bank about three years ago. Since then costs have come down to a level where achieving similar usable capacity with LiPO4 is almost a no brainer.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Yes, that was two years ago, you gave some advice then, thanks. The CO alarm woke us. Opened up all hatches and let the battery cool completely before moving. But it has left me somewhat wary of this happening again with the 25A charger. The original 10A one possibly would not have created such an issue.

I suspect it would.

Exactly, I was saying why I would be more comfortable with the starter on a trickle, so shore charge does not use VSR and no chance of overcharging a dying start battery. I assume (maybe incorrect) that a domestic battery in a bank will be protected somewhat by of the others (I have three 90Ah) so charger would not give the high output?

Unfortunately, if one battery in a bank has a shorted cell the others will still be at over 13/14V, so it will still boil/overheat etc.

I bought the new house bank about three years ago. Since then costs have come down to a level where achieving similar usable capacity with LiPO4 is almost a no brainer.

Yes, it's starting to make sense for more and more boats now prices have dropped.