VHF - voice procedure

Thistle

Thistle

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Following on, if I may, from the "VHF - who speaks first on the working channel?" thread, is there a recognised voice procedure manual for marine VHF communications? The procedures for Mayday and Pan Pan calls are well covered in VHF courses and elsewhere but how *should* we be doing things the rest of the time?

This wasn't covered in the course I did and others, either through admitting ignorance on these forums and asking for advice or through general criticism of what they hear when out on the water, indicate that I am not the only one with this gap in my knowledge. Pointers to an authoritative answer would be appreciated.
 
I have in my library a rather tatty copy of the RYA booklet G22/91 which covers VHF RadioTelephony for Yachtsmen.

Failing that, falling back on 23 years experience in the Royal Signals helps !!!

...and it really bugs me when people say 'over and out' and 'receiving you loud and clear'. Old habits die hard i suppose.
 
I would have thought first to change to working channel if initial call made on ch16. Most now call direct on working channel so it don't really apply. I think the indication of of reception quality is a spin off of the MF/ HF RT days when signals might be poor due to fading or interferance or just distance......My pet dislike is the completing of communications with the word "out" .....it's really so un-necessary with perfect quality vhf communications, would you say it at the end of a mobile phone conversation? No....I think it's my head cold or something this morning....cheers and oh out.
 
Thanks to you and to noswellplease for making my point so elequently! Perhaps we all need to follow up the reference helpfully provided by Talulah.
 
It's news to me if it is.......It only started up in the last 10 years.......now their all at it......Like bellbottoms it will go out of fashion then something else will replace it.
 
over - finish of this transmission and expecting a reply.


out - finish of transmission and end of message. (Message being one transmission or group of transmissions)


'over and out' never used together, as voice procedure it doesn't make sense.

i.e. finish of this transmission and expecting a reply but have finished message and no reply needed...
 
Agreed. Over and out is an abomination. It crops up in aviation sometimes and is a waste of time and indicates you have no idea what you are doing on the radio.
 
Well my own opinion is that the use of over after every transmission is un-necessary if both parties hear each other clearly, its as simple as that....for me anyway.
 
I would have thought that 'out' or some indication that you had finished your conversation was absolutely necessary to enable anyone who was also listening on the air to make a call. Agreed you don't say it on the phone and generally no one else is listening to your conversation (not that you know anyway). How else would you indicate that you had finished? Saying Goodbye doesn't work for me. Out.
 
I agree, that while 'over' is not necessary - I frequently omit it when calling people I know well - 'out' is sensible to show you are clearing the channel. Another useful alternative is "Leaky Bucket standing by 16/72" to show you are switching back to 16 or remaining on a channel but ending the call. This is handy if one is waiting for further instructions from port control or a marina.
 
in this email and personal conversation on a mobile, i can understand your point,
but in the world of radio comms, you need a short and concise way to tell someone you have finish what you are saying, which then gives the other person the indication to reply or to start their call, without trying to overcall which then becomes a mish mash of uncontrolled coversations and confusion...


although nowadays it seems to be an outdated mode of procedures to us, it has worked well for decades also being used by the military and rescue services, and our little bit of leisure use, seems very insignificant as we have it for more of an emergency use, and it is really never used to its full potential...
 
Your phone analogy isn't valid.

The point of saying 'over' on vhf is so that the other person knows it is clear for them to press the transmit button. This isn't necessary on the phone, as communication is two way.

Similarly, 'out' indicates that they're ok to change channel, and do other things.

This use has been widespread since I first used vhf in the late 60's.

I agree with others, 'over and out' sounds silly.
 
What I would like to know, who is this chap Rodger and his mate Wilco /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Well its certainly valid if your on a duplex channel. Its only 16 67 and a few others are simplex but as I said because the reception is so clear, it makes "over" somewhat redundant. The use of the word "Out" is in my humble opinion such a misnomer. What does it refer to? I think perhaps this expression came from across the pond where our american cousins developed their own individual style of communications.
 
I don't think the use of 'over' is redundant.

There are times when the reception isn't crystal clear, also the general noise and other distractions on board can sometimes make listening difficult. The operator may have dropped the microphone, been distracted by a sail change or any number of other things. I find it useful to have a clear signal that the operator has finished what he wants to say and is awaiting a response.

A few years ago when I first started sailing and got my VHF license and started using the radio I used to say 'over and out'. It was mainly down to nerves. Don't do it now. I think those criticising the practice are being a bit impatient. It's not the end of the world.
 
Noswellplease - You must know that radio comms is on an open system and needs a procedure that maintains order and therefore reliable comms - particularly in an emergency. Procedure words (prowords) at the end of a message clearly tell other parties whether they are free to speak or not. By the way, simplex does not just apply to a few channels. Either a radio ( and all its channels)is simplex or it is not. We also have to remember that these voice procedures are internationally recognised and hopefully practised so that whoever we communcate with will understand what we are doing. Accepted that there are many instances of professional mariners relaxing more than a little with their voice procedures - sometimes the Fishing fleet leads the way in this - but the point remains. Sorry to bang on; but no time time to write anything shorter! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
In our course we were instructed that "over" must be used at the end of a single one way coomunication within a conversation to indicate to the other party the appropriate time for response. We were also instruted that the word "out" - e.g "Yacht Numpty OUT" was used to indicate that the two way converation was ended. Not to use the proper procedure is in theory an abuse of the VHF system
 
They used to be official abbreviations when I was in the RAF in the 50s. Roger= "I have received and understood your message" and Wilco= "Roger + I'll do as you ask".

I think they are still useful and not sure why they're not "official" any more.
 
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