RestlessL
Well-Known Member
Also, following the script gives the receiving station time to be ready, with pencil and paper, to record the message. A rushed "Help, I am at x and sinking" doesn't.
John
John
VHF Mayday Pan Pan etc
- Thread starter atelford
- Start date
Abigail
Well-Known Member
Agree the card is v helpful, especially if the receiver is not a trained rescue service. I find it depends where we are. For sauntering down the Orwell, I say here's how tog et to ch 16. Push this and yell for help. But for crossing Biscay or sailing elsewhere, it's teh full drill.
My reading of SOLAS is that vessels over 12m must display the relevant info near the radio. I can't remember where ours came from but it's two laminated sheets stuck onto the bulkhead with bluetak.
Another tip (taken from an ex-Army mate) is that laminated copies of our abandon ship drill and mayday procedures are stuck on the bulkhead in the heads. So you can review them in idle moments. Can't hurt.
My reading of SOLAS is that vessels over 12m must display the relevant info near the radio. I can't remember where ours came from but it's two laminated sheets stuck onto the bulkhead with bluetak.
Another tip (taken from an ex-Army mate) is that laminated copies of our abandon ship drill and mayday procedures are stuck on the bulkhead in the heads. So you can review them in idle moments. Can't hurt.
ctelfer38
Well-Known Member
It's probably my own Army background; but I do not see a lot of sense in not using a known, tried and tested procedure when that is designed to get you through a crisis - wherever you are. Another dimension to the discussion in this thread is that there are enough critics of the recreational sailing community out there already, without our volunteering to be less than attentive to the disciplines of the maritime communications system. I feel as though I am beginning to rant though - don't mean to do so - I'll shut up now. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Dalliance
Well-Known Member
If one has a printed sheet giving the correct procedure to use you will probably find that it has a calming influence on someone in a panic situation. Everything around them is in chaos but they have a defined task with a scritp to follow and they don't have to think about what to say. The repetitive part of the procedure is to allow for errors or poor transmission so I encourage all of my crew to know what to do and to read from the "script" above the VHF.
Shorn100
Well-Known Member
To completely pedantic - the red button has to be pressed in the right way depending on the set.
i.e. for most sets a quick press to bring up the distress menu, followed by a long press - holding the button in for five seconds - will provide an undesignated distress.
It's not complicated but in my experience as a SRC instructor/assessor most people get it wrong until they are shown how to do it. Which is no surprise since it's not immediately obvious.
In talks where I have used my training sets, volunteers from the audience, even when they have done the course, get it wrong when put into a panic situation.
The mayday procedure is an internationally agreed procedure. Thankfully it's in english.
I wonder how well we would do if we had to learn the mayday procedure in French or Spanish or Chinese. I wonder how well we would understand what was being said? That's the idea of sticking to a set format - so that it's easiy for everyone to understand.
So spare a thought for Johny Foreigner and use the internationally recognised procedure. It may just be that the craft nearest to your position is a non-english speaking one. If they don't understand you, they will sail on by.
Shorn
i.e. for most sets a quick press to bring up the distress menu, followed by a long press - holding the button in for five seconds - will provide an undesignated distress.
It's not complicated but in my experience as a SRC instructor/assessor most people get it wrong until they are shown how to do it. Which is no surprise since it's not immediately obvious.
In talks where I have used my training sets, volunteers from the audience, even when they have done the course, get it wrong when put into a panic situation.
The mayday procedure is an internationally agreed procedure. Thankfully it's in english.
I wonder how well we would do if we had to learn the mayday procedure in French or Spanish or Chinese. I wonder how well we would understand what was being said? That's the idea of sticking to a set format - so that it's easiy for everyone to understand.
So spare a thought for Johny Foreigner and use the internationally recognised procedure. It may just be that the craft nearest to your position is a non-english speaking one. If they don't understand you, they will sail on by.
Shorn
tangomoon
Well-Known Member
Don't forget to open microphone first by pressing switch on side.
Better still get a set of instructions and check them thoroughly before using.
Better still get a set of instructions and check them thoroughly before using.
tangomoon
Well-Known Member
The way it is, is the way it is, for a reason.
Encouraging poor transmissions is not of any help to anybody.
Encouraging poor transmissions is not of any help to anybody.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
I can only agree with others above..... the standard procedure is there for many reasons, not least of which is that in a panic situation, it encourages users to include all the relevant information...
Having overheard a few over the years, it is quite obvious that panic and fear does strange things to people, and having something fixed and structured to follow makes a big difference.
I must admit that i'd not thought of the foreign language angle, but that too is a good point. You'd recognise a mayday in any language, and at the very least be able to have a good go at capturing some of the important information.... a 5 second panicked garble might not even e recognised as a distress call.
Having overheard a few over the years, it is quite obvious that panic and fear does strange things to people, and having something fixed and structured to follow makes a big difference.
I must admit that i'd not thought of the foreign language angle, but that too is a good point. You'd recognise a mayday in any language, and at the very least be able to have a good go at capturing some of the important information.... a 5 second panicked garble might not even e recognised as a distress call.
narooma
Well-Known Member
You could replace the whole lengthy mayday with:
State Mayday.
State Position.
Not forgetting you are in serious trouble (why else would you call?) perhaps you should consider that you may only get one chance at contact, so giving <u>all</u> relevant information, in a set format, is a good idea and <u>could</u> save lives. Anything else is just laziness and poor procedures.
State Mayday.
State Position.
Not forgetting you are in serious trouble (why else would you call?) perhaps you should consider that you may only get one chance at contact, so giving <u>all</u> relevant information, in a set format, is a good idea and <u>could</u> save lives. Anything else is just laziness and poor procedures.
gandy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe a silly question, in a boat I was in recently above the VHF radio I saw a laminated page that contained a "script" as such of what to say and do to make a Mayday or Pan Pan call. Seems like a handy thing if the skipper (being the only one who knows how to us it) goes overboard. Ive looked about online but cant find anything similar. Surely it would be in RYAs interest to publish such a thing. Does anyone have a link ?
[/ QUOTE ]I have a Visio document I drew up for our reference card. I could email that if you're interested. Its formatted with basic instructions for radio use on one side, the Mayday procedure on the other, and boat name and call sign details across the top.
Maybe a silly question, in a boat I was in recently above the VHF radio I saw a laminated page that contained a "script" as such of what to say and do to make a Mayday or Pan Pan call. Seems like a handy thing if the skipper (being the only one who knows how to us it) goes overboard. Ive looked about online but cant find anything similar. Surely it would be in RYAs interest to publish such a thing. Does anyone have a link ?
[/ QUOTE ]I have a Visio document I drew up for our reference card. I could email that if you're interested. Its formatted with basic instructions for radio use on one side, the Mayday procedure on the other, and boat name and call sign details across the top.
WindFinder
N/A
Some responses to the comments above:
Formal Mayday gives time for the reciving station to get a pencil? FFS! Does the Rx-ing station need a pencil to remember someone is in dire trouble 5 miles South of the IOW? Is slowing down the initial mayday call a good thing? If the transmission is cut short the quicker the better - if it's not cut short then detail can be filled in by a Q&A with the Rxing station.
It encourages people to include the relevant information? What else is there apart from Mayday and the position? The CG usually responds with questions anyway!
CBT - is it even remotely possible that someone would look down on a poorly presented mayday? FFS! You hear the odd one in the Solent and they're rarely perfect. I once heard a heart attack victim's wife describe how they'd turned 'left' out of Portsmouth. Would you really have a pop at her for that?
The only real mayday situation I've ever been involved in the only person who could remember off pat the full correct Mayday lingo was the only guy with medical training - which effectively took him away from the casualty for 10 minutes at a crucial time. If we'd felt able to just press 16 and tell them what's up in plain language he could have remained in control of the casualty. It really made me realize how stupid the whole thing was, and it was only in the calm after the panic that we realized any one of us was capable of giving the required information - we just couldn't remember the exact format it had to be presented in. Would the CG really have sent us to radio ettiquet prison?
Asking for help shouldn't be a skill that few people have or that requires a crib sheet - in fact what percentage of sailors can do it right first time every time? I've just tried it and stumbled through it (it turns out with a mistake) and my SO missed out loads of stuff!
Final point. All the benifits of a formal 'mayday' call apply to dialing 999. Yet we don't make dialling 999 a skill to be learned and so easily forgotten that we need crib sheets.
Formal Mayday gives time for the reciving station to get a pencil? FFS! Does the Rx-ing station need a pencil to remember someone is in dire trouble 5 miles South of the IOW? Is slowing down the initial mayday call a good thing? If the transmission is cut short the quicker the better - if it's not cut short then detail can be filled in by a Q&A with the Rxing station.
It encourages people to include the relevant information? What else is there apart from Mayday and the position? The CG usually responds with questions anyway!
CBT - is it even remotely possible that someone would look down on a poorly presented mayday? FFS! You hear the odd one in the Solent and they're rarely perfect. I once heard a heart attack victim's wife describe how they'd turned 'left' out of Portsmouth. Would you really have a pop at her for that?
The only real mayday situation I've ever been involved in the only person who could remember off pat the full correct Mayday lingo was the only guy with medical training - which effectively took him away from the casualty for 10 minutes at a crucial time. If we'd felt able to just press 16 and tell them what's up in plain language he could have remained in control of the casualty. It really made me realize how stupid the whole thing was, and it was only in the calm after the panic that we realized any one of us was capable of giving the required information - we just couldn't remember the exact format it had to be presented in. Would the CG really have sent us to radio ettiquet prison?
Asking for help shouldn't be a skill that few people have or that requires a crib sheet - in fact what percentage of sailors can do it right first time every time? I've just tried it and stumbled through it (it turns out with a mistake) and my SO missed out loads of stuff!
Final point. All the benifits of a formal 'mayday' call apply to dialing 999. Yet we don't make dialling 999 a skill to be learned and so easily forgotten that we need crib sheets.
markstirling
Active Member
Completely disagree.
The benefit of the set procedure is that the receiving party knows the format and order of the message and can anticipate whats coming next when the message might otherwise be lost e.g. when reception is poor, when there's lots of background noise, when the user has a strong accent or even is speaking in a foreign language.
It also helps the sender to communicate all the necessary information in one go.
The benefit of the set procedure is that the receiving party knows the format and order of the message and can anticipate whats coming next when the message might otherwise be lost e.g. when reception is poor, when there's lots of background noise, when the user has a strong accent or even is speaking in a foreign language.
It also helps the sender to communicate all the necessary information in one go.
SwedishLass
Well-Known Member
Somewhat late replying but I wanted a similar thing and found this on the canadian site
http://www.tc.gc.ca/publications/BIL/TP9878/PDF/HR/TP9878.PDF
I then tinkered about to make it fit an A4 page, suitable for my boat and radio and able to fit into a cheap frame from a well known store. The end result (I have altered it to leave blanks for the name, MMSI & callsign and converted to pdf) is available here:
http://www.wivenhoesailing.org.uk/notices/Blankdistressnotice.pdf
Frame is screwed to bulkhead using keyplates
PM is you would like the word 2003 document to personalise.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/publications/BIL/TP9878/PDF/HR/TP9878.PDF
I then tinkered about to make it fit an A4 page, suitable for my boat and radio and able to fit into a cheap frame from a well known store. The end result (I have altered it to leave blanks for the name, MMSI & callsign and converted to pdf) is available here:
http://www.wivenhoesailing.org.uk/notices/Blankdistressnotice.pdf
Frame is screwed to bulkhead using keyplates
PM is you would like the word 2003 document to personalise.
stevepick
...
[ QUOTE ]
Some responses to the comments above:
Formal Mayday gives time for the reciving station to get a pencil? FFS! Does the Rx-ing station need a pencil to remember someone is in dire trouble 5 miles South of the IOW? Is slowing down the initial mayday call a good thing? If the transmission is cut short the quicker the better - if it's not cut short then detail can be filled in by a Q&A with the Rxing station.
[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't picked up that many, but when I hear one, I need to jump down to the nav table to note it down and the initial sequence warns me and gives me time to do this. Where I sail, you may well have to help since its a bit more "spread out" up NW. Last year we picked up an immaculate mayday relay - sent by a yacht who had picked up the original broadcast from a HH VHF. The CG hadn't picked it up. In that situation you need all the information possible to convey the message properly .
[ QUOTE ]
It encourages people to include the relevant information? What else is there apart from Mayday and the position? The CG usually responds with questions anyway!
[/ QUOTE ]
The response needs to know what they are responding to, how many people are involved and the level of urgency.
[ QUOTE ]
Asking for help shouldn't be a skill that few people have or that requires a crib sheet - in fact what percentage of sailors can do it right first time every time? I've just tried it and stumbled through it (it turns out with a mistake) and my SO missed out loads of stuff!
[/ QUOTE ]
Hence a crib sheet is a good idea, there is one on my boat. Many folk do learn it ( its not that hard to learn) and its certainly stuck in my head, and my wifes.Maybe it is a (a small)skill that anyone who sails with a VHF should learn?
Some responses to the comments above:
Formal Mayday gives time for the reciving station to get a pencil? FFS! Does the Rx-ing station need a pencil to remember someone is in dire trouble 5 miles South of the IOW? Is slowing down the initial mayday call a good thing? If the transmission is cut short the quicker the better - if it's not cut short then detail can be filled in by a Q&A with the Rxing station.
[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't picked up that many, but when I hear one, I need to jump down to the nav table to note it down and the initial sequence warns me and gives me time to do this. Where I sail, you may well have to help since its a bit more "spread out" up NW. Last year we picked up an immaculate mayday relay - sent by a yacht who had picked up the original broadcast from a HH VHF. The CG hadn't picked it up. In that situation you need all the information possible to convey the message properly .
[ QUOTE ]
It encourages people to include the relevant information? What else is there apart from Mayday and the position? The CG usually responds with questions anyway!
[/ QUOTE ]
The response needs to know what they are responding to, how many people are involved and the level of urgency.
[ QUOTE ]
Asking for help shouldn't be a skill that few people have or that requires a crib sheet - in fact what percentage of sailors can do it right first time every time? I've just tried it and stumbled through it (it turns out with a mistake) and my SO missed out loads of stuff!
[/ QUOTE ]
Hence a crib sheet is a good idea, there is one on my boat. Many folk do learn it ( its not that hard to learn) and its certainly stuck in my head, and my wifes.Maybe it is a (a small)skill that anyone who sails with a VHF should learn?
WindFinder
N/A
[ QUOTE ]
The response needs to know what they are responding to,
how many people are involved and the level of urgency.
[/ QUOTE ]
They need to know the level of urgency of a mayday? Are there non-urgent Maydays? YEs, there may be some other detail that the CG want but if the transmission is cut short a position is essential and all else is detail - if the transmission isn't cut short then the boat can be quizzd for further info - which already happens.
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who sails with a VHF should learn?
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe everyone with a telephone should learn a formal set of words for dialling 999, too. Or would making summoning help difficult be so obviously stupid that you'd never get the Govt to do it?
Anyway, I think I've now heard all the arguments and there's nothing I haven't already considered so I guess this thread has served it's purpose.
The response needs to know what they are responding to,
how many people are involved and the level of urgency.
[/ QUOTE ]
They need to know the level of urgency of a mayday? Are there non-urgent Maydays? YEs, there may be some other detail that the CG want but if the transmission is cut short a position is essential and all else is detail - if the transmission isn't cut short then the boat can be quizzd for further info - which already happens.
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who sails with a VHF should learn?
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe everyone with a telephone should learn a formal set of words for dialling 999, too. Or would making summoning help difficult be so obviously stupid that you'd never get the Govt to do it?
Anyway, I think I've now heard all the arguments and there's nothing I haven't already considered so I guess this thread has served it's purpose.