vhf - fitted or handheld suitable?

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symondo

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firstly - ive not done my ticket for it

however ive a slot in my dash for a vhf which i aimed to fit - before i discovered it was corroded to an inch of its life internally.

so looking to fit up a new unit.

Ive currently got an arial mounted, cables run, ive also run fresh wiring for a new circuit, switch panel to where it'd be fitted.

But im curious of the benefits of a hard fitted system to a hand held?
im looking for canal/inland loch use maybe coastal in a few years time.

i assume i could manage happily without a vhf, but im thinking more from a safety point than anything else as i will have my children on board
 
The big difference is in range and clarity. A hand held usually transmits around the 6-8W mark max and a ship radio at 25 W. When in trouble being heard clearly is vital.
 
BruceK said:
The big difference is in range and clarity. A hand held usually transmits around the 6-8W mark max and a ship radio at 25 W. When in trouble being heard clearly is vital.
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Indeed - the range of a handheld VHF will be severely limited compared to the fixed unit. A DSC test on our fixed unit will get a response from the coastguard almost anywhere in the Solent area, but the handy only gets a reply when we are within a few miles of the base station.
 
Range will be better on a fixed VHF as the aerial will be higher up and if you get a new aerial get one with some gain of 3db or more. fit the aerial as high as you can and it should be about 1.5 metres from the operating position.
 
zante said:
Range will be better on a fixed VHF as the aerial will be higher up and if you get a new aerial get one with some gain of 3db or more. fit the aerial as high as you can and it should be about 1.5 metres from the operating position.
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Also, the antenna on a fixed installation will generally be the proper size! For the frequency of the VHF marine band, the antenna needs to be at least half a metre long to be resonant - unlike the six inch "rubber duck" that is typically supplied with a handie.
 
This is all well and good assuming your boat hasn't sunk and you still have access to the VHF...

If you're that concerned buy an EPIRB.
 
Stats007 said:
This is all well and good assuming your boat hasn't sunk and you still have access to the VHF...

If you're that concerned buy an EPIRB.
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Also true - we have all three... VHFs are pretty cheap these days, so why not have both fixed and handie? If I take the dinghy out, I'll carry the handie with me in order to be able to contact my wife back on the main boat and to be able to listen to VTS and avoid the need for emergency manoeuvers to avoid a tug or cruise liner!
 
an EPIRB is gold in that situation, a handheld next to useless. Try talking into a handheld when in an inflated life jacket while prone in the water, and forget range when the aerial is either submerged or at best six inches above the waterline in any sort of swell
 
BruceK said:
an EPIRB is gold in that situation, a handheld next to useless. Try talking into a handheld when in an inflated life jacket while prone in the water, and forget range when the aerial is either submerged or at best six inches above the waterline in any sort of swell
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But handhelds are so cheap to buy (start at about £60) so I say have one as well as fixed. Don't over think things just have both I say
 
TSB240 said:
An epirb for canal or inland is a complete waste of money!
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Agreed but the OP states he may want to go coastal in a few years. For canal use a handheld would probably suffice well enough as VHF line of sight isn't that great to begin with. Again his question was around the benefits of of the two systems. It's not complete thread drift.
 
Bigplumbs said:
But handhelds are so cheap to buy (start at about £60) so I say have one as well as fixed. Don't over think things just have both I say
Click to expand...

I was agreeing with Stat007 not decrying a handheld. For coastal use when it's time to swim I'd rather have an epirb as a first choice to just a handheld. Too many consider the handheld as their last resort, or god forbid, a mobile phone. You cant have too many means of calling help though.
 
maby said:
Also, the antenna on a fixed installation will generally be the proper size! For the frequency of the VHF marine band, the antenna needs to be at least half a metre long to be resonant - unlike the six inch "rubber duck" that is typically supplied with a handie.
Click to expand...
Not true I'm afraid. It depends, it can be a quarter wave, half wave etc. A flexible aerial such as a 'rubber duck' will still be resonant (it's the same length just in a coil) as there would be a huge mismatch and very little of the power would actually make it out in to the ether. Feeder type is important length and type is important, you can have an aerial at the top of a mast, nice and high so you can 'see' over the horizon but if poor quality feeder or connectors are used the installation will be next to useless. General rule of thumb, decent feeder, fixed aerial, decent ground plane etc etc. Aerials are a lot more complicated than folk give them credit for and often the last thing folk think about in an installation. The main problem with a portable is, as many have already mentioned, low power and compressed polar diagram from the antenna. Also attenuated by the head or hand whilst holding (and where does that radiation go?
 
boatingdave said:
Not true I'm afraid. It depends, it can be a quarter wave, half wave etc. A flexible aerial such as a 'rubber duck' will still be resonant (it's the same length just in a coil) as there would be a huge mismatch and very little of the power would actually make it out in to the ether. Feeder type is important length and type is important, you can have an aerial at the top of a mast, nice and high so you can 'see' over the horizon but if poor quality feeder or connectors are used the installation will be next to useless. General rule of thumb, decent feeder, fixed aerial, decent ground plane etc etc. Aerials are a lot more complicated than folk give them credit for and often the last thing folk think about in an installation. The main problem with a portable is, as many have already mentioned, low power and compressed polar diagram from the antenna. Also attenuated by the head or hand whilst holding (and where does that radiation go?
Click to expand...

yes you are right with the right antenna feed cable etc 1w of power can go further than 10w of power with the wrong set up and if the antenna feed cable etc are far out it will damage the transceivers out put transistor in the long run.
 
The ticket course is quite tedious but worth doing.
Depends on boat size and where you intend to use it. Inland a cell phone might be more use.
As said a fitted VHF has greater transmition range.
Some hand held can be connected to bigger antennas.
I take a hand held in a kayak. and talk to VTS traffic if crossing a channel. I have heard lots of guides and groups doing the same. A hand held is just fine for a small boat. I took one out with me regularly when fishing, my old boat didn't have a fitted one. My newer boat is a bit smaller but has a fitted VHF. Nice to have but still have my hand held.
My sailboats old one no fitted VHF. No problem hand Held was just fine.
New one has fitted VHF. I take hand held as well. I can leave on 16 and hand held in cockpit on VTS.
Routinely called Marinas several miles away on hand held.

And if you boat sinks the fitted one goes down with her, The hand held can come in the dingy.
EPIRBS are nice but a hand held will let you hear help coming and allow you to talk to it.
 
boatingdave said:
Not true I'm afraid. It depends, it can be a quarter wave, half wave etc. A flexible aerial such as a 'rubber duck' will still be resonant (it's the same length just in a coil) as there would be a huge mismatch and very little of the power would actually make it out in to the ether. Feeder type is important length and type is important, you can have an aerial at the top of a mast, nice and high so you can 'see' over the horizon but if poor quality feeder or connectors are used the installation will be next to useless. General rule of thumb, decent feeder, fixed aerial, decent ground plane etc etc. Aerials are a lot more complicated than folk give them credit for and often the last thing folk think about in an installation. The main problem with a portable is, as many have already mentioned, low power and compressed polar diagram from the antenna. Also attenuated by the head or hand whilst holding (and where does that radiation go?
Click to expand...

OK - you can make anything resonant with enough loading (I passed the RAE back when it was a written paper and there were no calculators) - but that does not make it a good radiator! Naturally resonant antennae at marine band frequencies are inconveniently big to stick on a handie...
 
maby said:
OK - you can make anything resonant with enough loading (I passed the RAE back when it was a written paper and there were no calculators) - but that does not make it a good radiator! Naturally resonant antennae at marine band frequencies are inconveniently big to stick on a handie...
Click to expand...
It all to do with compromise
 
Fixed VHF every time... don't forget inland there are likely to be other challenges to the range.... hills, trees and buildings... A tree to a radio wave is like a big bag of water.... and radio waves don't go through water....
A handie can be a great second radio.... if you need the versatility and portability.

I have 'needed' both on some occasions.... fixed was on dual watch, 16 and 12. 12 was the port I was entering. So needed both to listen to other boats intentions and negotiate berthing details. Handie was on 6..... to chat to the boat we were cruising with.....to co-ordinate rafting etc..... at one point me and the crew were juggling a 3 way, 3 channel conversation..... but that is rare I guess....
 
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