VHF/DSC/AIS

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Col-it-is

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Can anyone point me to a good reference source to make an informed decision about replacing my VHF radio? I currently have a basic VHF by the chart table with no external speaker. I need to replace and am not sure about relative priorities of:

- DSC
- External speaker
- Extension mike (wired or radio)
- AIS

I do quite a bit of single-handed and can see benefit of being able to hear and use VHF without going below. So far as I can see, if I'm buying a new set I'll not pay much more for DSC so might as well have it although not entirely clear about benefits.

I've seen one or two posts referring to AIS and think I understand how it works but not sure what priority to give it. If AIS is the must have of the future, is there any benefit in getting it integrated with VHF, or is just a stand alone application and/or link to chartplotter. I should perhaps say I have integrated Raymarine plotter/radar all linked to wind, speed, autopilot etc.

Any experience / advice / recommended reading appreciated.
 
The benefit of DSC is if you have to send a mayday, you press a button and it sends the mayday along with your position, repeatedly, while you go about trying to keep yourself alive.

Don't know what use AIS is on a small boat, apart fom letting your friends and family know where you are via tracking website.
 
You didn't say what size boat you have (and therefore how far from the helm to the chart table)....
But ignoring that - I could not be without the Standard Horizon radio I have just installed - purely because of the external RAM microphone mounted by the helm. Full radio facilities by the helm, making use of the aerial at the top of the mast - great! When connected to the GPS it gives lat and long at the helm, together with time and you have volume, channel and DSC controls as well.

DSC I thought had to come on all new radios now - as Elton says, the predominant way of calling Mayday or even other ships these days - and you can even call other yachts using their MMSI. If you call a ship you can call them by their MMSI and their radio will beep until cancelled.


Regarding AIS - Two main types.. as Elton says, the one that transmits your position but you're talking about £500. The other type such as the NASA AIS (either display or engine/receiver only) where you hear the signals from other boats (all commercial vessels over 300t and any passenger carrying vessels) and the occasional yacht. The NASA display shows what it receives on a display (about £200) or you get the engine only which receives AIS transmissions and sends it for display on an AIS compatible chart plotter.

AIS is great because for £200 you can see other ships call signs, names, their course and speed etc.. . and it makes it easy to call them direct. Radar would just show you a dot - but if you have the extra £1000 then they would go well together.

That's my first attempt at a reply - hopefully gets you thinking. Rgds Martin.
 
As others say the two things perform different functions. Difficult to buy a VHF now without DSC, but you need to have a GPS signal for the distress bit to work automatically. You also need to upgrade your licence to use it. External speakers and mic depend on your own preferences about how you want to use VHF.

AIS receivers are very common now as either standalone or linked to a chart plotter. Valuable if you sail where there are lots of big ships (everything over 300 tons has to transmit). Jury is out on whether there is any value in a yacht having its own transmitter.
 
There's a rumour that Standard Horizon is about to bring out a DSC VHF radio with a built-in AIS receiver. GX2100E i think it is. Could save some hassle - just link it to an AIS compatible chartplotter or PC charting program on a laptop.
 
Dont be tempted by some of the real cheapo sets around. Buy a good quality ICom or Standard Horizon radio with a command mic, that is a mic that is wired up into the cockpit and will give full control of the radio, if you are single handed it will be invaluable, you can use the radio whilst still at the helm.
 
GX2100E

Hi! We're currently waiting for the GX2100E to be released, but we seem to be having trouble getting an ETA. I've emailed SH a couple of times, but sadly have received no reply. The advantage of this VHF set (and I believe there are a couple of other sets available with built in AIS, including ICOM, but they're a bit more pricey!) is that you only, I believe, require one aerial and no additional splitters, etc. - potentially a very tidy installation. However, I am beginning to wonder if it will ever be released in the UK. It's currently available as a Matrix model in the US - I wonder what the problem is here?.
 
dk said:
There's a rumour that Standard Horizon is about to bring out a DSC VHF radio with a built-in AIS receiver. GX2100E i think it is. Could save some hassle - just link it to an AIS compatible chartplotter or PC charting program on a laptop.
Click to expand...

It actually has a tiny AIS plot on its own display screen! Also outputs AIS data.

But the nice feature is that you can make a DSC call to an AIS target automatically, without fiddling about with MMSI numbers.
 
syvictoria said:
The advantage of this VHF set ..... is that you only, I believe, require one aerial and no additional splitters, etc. - potentially a very tidy installation. However, I am beginning to wonder if it will ever be released in the UK. It's currently available as a Matrix model in the US - I wonder what the problem is here?.
Click to expand...

Yes, only one antenna needed. The problem here is the usual one - we have to have a CE-marked product. There's effectively no technical difference in a CE-marked product, but because of our wonderful European laws we can't legally own one if it doesn't have CE on it. However, who's likely to find out? Why not just buy the Matrix AIS from the US? It'll be cheaper than the eventual CE version too, I bet.
 
syvictoria said:
Hi! We're currently waiting for the GX2100E to be released, but we seem to be having trouble getting an ETA. I've emailed SH a couple of times, but sadly have received no reply. The advantage of this VHF set (and I believe there are a couple of other sets available with built in AIS, including ICOM, but they're a bit more pricey!) is that you only, I believe, require one aerial and no additional splitters, etc. - potentially a very tidy installation. However, I am beginning to wonder if it will ever be released in the UK. It's currently available as a Matrix model in the US - I wonder what the problem is here?.
Click to expand...

I'm also waiting for the GX2100E, they were hoping to have it launched end July. Been told they have got their CE certification now so I'm hoping it will be soon as at the moment I am using a hand held.
 
pvb said:
Yes, only one antenna needed. The problem here is the usual one - we have to have a CE-marked product. There's effectively no technical difference in a CE-marked product, but because of our wonderful European laws we can't legally own one if it doesn't have CE on it. However, who's likely to find out? Why not just buy the Matrix AIS from the US? It'll be cheaper than the eventual CE version too, I bet.
Click to expand...

When I quizzed Standard Horizon (UK) regarding the use of the US Matrix versions in the UK, I was told:

"Well it doesn't meet the European R&TTE directive requirements or the Marine Equipment directive from ETSI. We are currently working on Type approval for the European Version of this model and expect that this will complete soon and the units will be in the dealers by September if not before."

They currently sell for €350 to €400 in the USA, and the only reference I have seen to a UK selling price was '£339 RRP,' so I guess PVB is right about the cost.
 
ITH said:
When I quizzed Standard Horizon (UK) regarding the use of the US Matrix versions in the UK, I was told:

"Well it doesn't meet the European R&TTE directive requirements or the Marine Equipment directive from ETSI. We are currently working on Type approval for the European Version of this model and expect that this will complete soon and the units will be in the dealers by September if not before."
Click to expand...

The US version may not meet our wonderful European regulations, but it works perfectly well. If a US owner sailed across the pond and used his Matrix AIS in Europe, he'd have no difficulties at all, and nobody would try to stop him using it. The CE mark is protectionism, and helps companies charge significantly higher prices to European yachtsmen.
 
syvictoria said:
Hi! We're currently waiting for the GX2100E to be released, but we seem to be having trouble getting an ETA. I've emailed SH a couple of times, but sadly have received no reply. The advantage of this VHF set (and I believe there are a couple of other sets available with built in AIS, including ICOM, but they're a bit more pricey!) is that you only, I believe, require one aerial and no additional splitters, etc. - potentially a very tidy installation. However, I am beginning to wonder if it will ever be released in the UK. It's currently available as a Matrix model in the US - I wonder what the problem is here?.
Click to expand...


There isn't an ETA for the 2100 yet, and the UK price has also not been released. It is currently going through the (long winded) CE verfication process.
 
galadriel said:
Dont be tempted by some of the real cheapo sets around. Buy a good quality ICom or Standard Horizon radio with a command mic, that is a mic that is wired up into the cockpit and will give full control of the radio, if you are single handed it will be invaluable, you can use the radio whilst still at the helm.
Click to expand...

I've got a Standard Horizon with RAM mic in the cockpit - great set-up and wasn't expensive.

Also got a Nasa AIS engine linked to my Garmin 3006c plotter - cost effective and works great,

rgds
chris
 
I thoroughly support what others have said about having full radio facility in the cockpit as well as downstairs inside the boat.

Thought all new radios have to be DSC so dont think you will have any option. Take care against buying one suited to North America - they use different channels and you may find you can't change over.

AIS is a different beast altogether altho' radio-based and may be linked to the new generation of VHFs. In my experience it is not a substitute for radar and it can lead to a false sense of security cos altho' it shows some, it does not show all the boats around you; e.g fishing boats which are usually exempt from carrying one.

So consider buying a good quality DSC VHF with a remote access mike (RAM) or command mike which gives you full radio controls in the cockpit.

And then think about AIS as part of your debate about radar. Don't confuse it with radios.

Michael Minnitt
 
Assuming yours is a relatively conventional sailing boat, why bother having a VHF downstairs? Most radios are waterproof nowadays (including the SH Matrix AIS)

Thanks to the wonderful EU, radio manufacturers no longer have to mess about getting separate type approvals for each and every country -- one certificate ticks all the boxes across the whole of the EU, so it's cheaper, quicker, and keeps the price down.

I've seen the SH Matrix in the USA, and it's a great-looking radio, though the AIS display is smaller than I'd like, and doesn't have the features you'd expect if you wired an AIS receiver to a plotter. And the "press a button to talk to the ship that's about to hit you" idea is great in the USA, where a pre-collision chat is expected of you. But on this side of the pond, discussing collision avoidance by radio is frowned upon by the flat-hats, so it's not quite so useful.

DSC is (IMHO) still of debatable value, but the few remaining non-DSC sets are now so expensive that it's hardly worth not having it.

AIS receive-only is a bit like riding a bicycle without lights. OK, it's better than nothing (it just might have saved the Ouzo, for instance, because it would have told them that the Pride of Bilbao was turning) but AIS B is better because then they can see you as well as vice versa.

Radar is a different matter. Radar is king, and modern radars are much easier to set up than they used to be. But you still need to know how to use it, and you need power to run it, and somewhere to put it.
 
minnitt said:
Thought all new radios have to be DSC so dont think you will have any option. Take care against buying one suited to North America - they use different channels and you may find you can't change over.
Click to expand...

Just to correct a couple of points. You can still buy non-DSC VHF radios. And North American products almost always have a full International channel set, so they'll work fine in Europe (how do you think visiting American yachtsmen manage?). The only possible drawback is if people want to use one of the yacht club channels, which would possibly require special programming.
 
timbartlett said:
AIS receive-only is a bit like riding a bicycle without lights. OK, it's better than nothing (it just might have saved the Ouzo, for instance, because it would have told them that the Pride of Bilbao was turning) but AIS B is better because then they can see you as well as vice versa.

Radar is a different matter. Radar is king, and modern radars are much easier to set up than they used to be. But you still need to know how to use it, and you need power to run it, and somewhere to put it.
Click to expand...

I think there are a lot of people on here that would disagree with you there. AIS receivers allow you to see who is going to hit you when, and take avoiding action. And it works better than RADAR on small vessels because it's not subject to radar's platform stability issues.

AIS transmitting simply puts you on a list of targets that are probably not being tracked actively by the watch on a large proportion of shipping.

I would rather have an active radar reflector than AIS-B transmitting, anyday. And, given the choice of one or the other, I'd rather have AIS receive than RADAR, thanks.
 
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