Vetus hydraulic steering system... *sigh*

Cardo

Cardo

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www.yacht-tinkerbell.co.uk
Right, here we go. (Why are these things never as straightforward as they should be?)

So, I'm in the process of overhauling our totally naff hydraulic system. I'm replacing the crumbling cylinder with a Vetus MTC72 -
http://www.vetusdirect.com/steering-yacht/hydraulic-steering-ram-mtc52/
and our two helm pumps with HTPR42 -
http://www.vetusdirect.com/steering-yacht/hydraulic-helm-model-htpr30/

We currently have what appears to be a mixture of 6x10 and 8x12 hose throughout the boat (mostly 8x12), all with 1/4" fittings on the ends. I had hoped to be able to use these, however the helms and cylinder have 10mm compression fittings on them.

In order to connect 10mm hose to the compression fittings, I also need inserts -
http://www.vetus-shop.com/sleeve-insert-dia-65-mm-for-use-with-nylon-hose-p-1763.html

and I'll also need a couple of T pieces -
http://www.vetus-shop.com/vetus-tee-connector-for-tubing-10mm-p-126.html

as well as more 6x10mm hose...
http://www.vetusdirect.com/steering-accesories/hydraulic-bypass-valve-3-sizes-bypass/

The first question I guess is: Are these items standard sizes that I can buy locally from a hardware shop?

Second, though I'm not sure it's a particularly good idea: Is there some kind of adapter I can use to connect 1/4" fittings to 10mm compression fittings?
 
Get the pipes you need made up from proper hydraulic hose with proper swaged on fittings from a nearby hydraulic supply. There are even people who will come to site and make then on site.

My first boat had hydraulic steering with nylon pipe ad I had endless problems with pipes blowing off or bursting.
 
Rogershaw said:
Get the pipes you need made up from proper hydraulic hose with proper swaged on fittings from a nearby hydraulic supply. There are even people who will come to site and make then on site.

My first boat had hydraulic steering with nylon pipe ad I had endless problems with pipes blowing off or bursting.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, I had so much trouble with Vetus plastic pipes, In the end I went to a hydraulic place in Oxford and had a complete set of pipes made for around £60 and never looked back

IMGP0119.jpg
 
Rogershaw is dead right. Nylon hose in all its many incarnations is sent to try us!
first prize is to get rigid pipe in if you possibly can. It's not as expensive as it sounds, and even soft-drawn copper which runs a close second is reasonable.
Just make sure that from the rigid pipe you have flexible tails to the moving parts. I'm guessing you've fitted an MTC: you'll need a pair of tails to the cylinder of about 12", and get an extra one too. Another polite thing to do is to fit bleeding points in your lines, because rigid hose can't be coerced into letting go of bubbles that easily!
 
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With the viscosity of most hydraulic oils, I am surprised that any air bubbles would be retained in the lines. I've certainly had no such problems with my lines.

If you put in copper pipe make sure that they don't vibrate of rub on any fibreglass or similar because the addition of a little salt corrosion will wear the pipe through .... the green oxide is soft and wears off easily allowing more corrosion.
 
I had black rigid plastic pipes on my hydraulic steering for 11 years that I owned my last boat. I never had any issue with it. The pipes had proper hard brass olives and compression joints. I think the system was Hynautic. Very robust. I carried a set of spare pipes and fittings to do repairs if necessary on an Atlantic circuit but never used them.
 
The local hardware shop pointed us towards a chap that makes up hydraulic pipes. I showed him the helm, he measured the threads on the compression fittings and produced pipe ends that will screw directly onto these. So, looks like that's the way we'll be going! I've measured up the various pipe runs and we'll get him to make up the pipes with screw on fittings.
 
So, back to hydraulics chap with measurements for various bits of pipe. I need a number of runs with fittings with either 1/4" or 16mm (for the Vetus stuff) threads.

Mr Hydraulics Man doesn't like 1/4"! It's apparently rubbish! So he's insisting on using 3/8 pipe with 3/8" fittings (or 16mm for the Vetus ends). I can then use 3/8" - 1/4" adapters to connect the pipes up to the 1/4" fittings on the AP/reservoir.

From my understanding of hydraulics, this shouldn't be a problem. The larger pipe will take more fluid, but won't make a difference to the actual working of the system. If anything, it should be more resilient!
So, will this be ok?
 
So, hydraulics man has now come back with a quote to make up all the pipes. It's... somewhat more than we were expecting. I would be grateful if the forum could advise whether the quote is acceptable, or whether he's taking the piss.

In order to hook up all the new hydraulics, we need a number of pipes, T pieces and adapters.

Total length of pipe is 25.8m. Hydraulics man insists on using 3/8" pipe as he says 1/4" is ****.
In total we need 11 lengths of pipe of varying lengths. So 22 fittings on the ends of the pipes. Most will be 3/8", with some being 16mm to fit the Vetus devices.
There's 4 3/8" T-pieces, and there's also a couple of 3/8" - 1/4" adapters to fit the A/P.

For all of this he's quoted €340. On the face of it, it sounds like a lot, but I guess it's the numerous fittings that are driving the price up. All I'd like to know is whether it's worth taking the plunge, or walk away and find another solution. Obtaining the standard push-fit pipe would work out cheaper, but not by that much.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.
 
FWIW

I have a full vetus system including their hose but i did use their tube, inserts and compression fittings so it fitted together and sealed well

Mine is simple given I only have one pump, and an autopilot, but it wasn't that expensive buying their fittings, it all worked and it has done so since

My old copper pipes are still in along the same route and i cable tied the new hoses to them for support. That way you can run the hose straight into the compression fitting on the cylinder without converting from pipe to hose.

You must use the hose inserts in the ends though or the compression fittings don't seal properly.

I have played the fittings game on fuel lines and it can get complicated with both parallel and taper thread systems as well as the different tube sizes

Anyway good luck
 
I have all flexible hoses on my steering and some of the runs must be approaching 8-10m. True the hoses don't like sharp bends, and by the sounds of it you must have many with that number of connections ..... and they are not even bothering to bend the pipe.

I would be very uneasy with that number of connections. I would get another opinion if I were you.
 
TradewindSailor said:
I have all flexible hoses on my steering and some of the runs must be approaching 8-10m. True the hoses don't like sharp bends, and by the sounds of it you must have many with that number of connections ..... and they are not even bothering to bend the pipe.

I would be very uneasy with that number of connections. I would get another opinion if I were you.
Click to expand...

Number of connections is not an option. This is (or will be) our setup:

hydraulics.png

(Stolen from the Vetus manual)
 
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