Vetus hydraulic steering is 'slipping'

Rogershaw said:
No because the non return valves would keep the rudder in place unless there is excessive creep or no non return valves.

This is how mine works my rudder stays put when left alone, creep does happen when the steering is operated but not when stationary.

We do need to know if the OP system has non return valves or not
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I assume not because when left on the mooring I return to find the rudder hard over but the wheel lashed in what was straight ahead.
 
DownWest said:
Roger
First post.
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I agree with what you say, but with pilot operated non return valves that should not be necessary.

With a bypass valve which I also have does not eliminate all of the friction and oil transfer resistance.

I know as a bypass valve and emergency tiller arrangement is a safety requirement where I sail and you can feel the resistance when you operated the emergency tiller with the bypass valve open.

Just a note when my bypass valve is closed and I try to move the rudder with the emergency tiller the rudder will not move more than a degree or two and does not move like the OP says.


We need to know if the OP has pilot operated non return valves or not as this would give us a better picture of the arrangements.

Mt steering pumps have pilot operated non return valves built but the vetus had both so we don't know.
 
Rogershaw said:
I agree with what you say, but with pilot operated non return valves that should not be necessary.

With a bypass valve which I also have does not eliminate all of the friction and oil transfer resistance.

I know as a bypass valve and emergency tiller arrangement is a safety requirement where I sail and you can feel the resistance when you operated the emergency tiller with the bypass valve open.

Just a note when my bypass valve is closed and I try to move the rudder with the emergency tiller the rudder will not move more than a degree or two and does not move like the OP says.


We need to know if the OP has pilot operated non return valves or not as this would give us a better picture of the arrangements.

Mt steering pumps have pilot operated non return valves built but the vetus had both so we don't know.
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I have what I believe is an isolation valve in the engine compartment. But my understanding was that this was for emergency tiller use only. Certainly it's not in a very convenient location for anything other than occasional / emergency use!

Its worth adding that when I bought the boat it was out of the water on the hard, and my very inquisitive 4yr old boy was able to move the rudder from side to side - although I only noticed because I was doing something or other in the cockpit and out of the corner of my eye noticed the wheel moving...
 
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Balbas said:
I assume not because when left on the mooring I return to find the rudder hard over but the wheel lashed in what was straight ahead.
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Can you identify your steering pump thom these

https://www.vetus.com/en/steering-systems/steering-pumps.html

The ones at the bottom with the block on the back are the pilot operated non return valves.

Vetus also have a seperate valve block like this.

https://www.vetus.com/en/steering-s...rn-valve-block-k30-140-for-mtc-cylinders.html
 
Rogershaw said:
Can you identify your steering pump thom these

https://www.vetus.com/en/steering-systems/steering-pumps.html

The ones at the bottom with the block on the back are the pilot operated non return valves.

Vetus also have a seperate valve block like this.

https://www.vetus.com/en/steering-s...rn-valve-block-k30-140-for-mtc-cylinders.html
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No, I've never even seen it. The lack of hydraulic oil dripping anywhere has been the basis on which I've pronounced it free of leaks, but the pump itself is buried in the binnacle - I'll take the inspection hatches off next time I'm at the boat. But based on my response above (about boy moving the rudder) I think we can assume that I do not have non return valves (or if I do they are not working).
 
Balbas said:
I have what I believe is an isolation valve in the engine compartment. But my understanding was that this was for emergency tiller use only. Certainly it's not in a very convenient location for anything other than occasional / emergency use!

Its worth adding that when I bought the boat it was out of the water on the hard, and my very inquisitive 4yr old boy was able to move the rudder from side to side - although I only noticed because I was doing something or other in the cockpit and out of the corner of my eye noticed the wheel moving...
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Check if that isolation valve is not a bypass valve. They can look the same by are connected differently. Do check id this os open or closed if it a bypass it should be closed for the steering to work. If its and isolation valve if must be open for the steering to work.

If its a bypass valve and it partially open it could cause some issues like you have.

If the rudder can be moved and the wheel turns you do not have non return valves.
 
macd said:
It doesn't leave anything. It's a piece of entirely passive information for anyone to do with as they will.
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I was refering to the info on the Windpilot site that the main rudder should be set (& locked) to balance the boat while the SS gear steers the course. Since the OP has creep on his main rudder he can't do that.
 
DownWest said:
I was refering to the info on the Windpilot site that the main rudder should be set (& locked) to balance the boat while the SS gear steers the course. Since the OP has creep on his main rudder he can't do that.
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It looks like the OP has a non locking hydraulic steering so the steering needs to be locked but it also looks like locking the wheel will not lock the rudder which IMHO it should.

I think the OP needs to investigate further and check how much the rudder will move and estimate how much force is needed. If as it looks like the rudder will move just by wave action when the wheel is held stationary, my first comment about excessive leakage in the cylinder piston seals could be the cause.
 
Holy thread resurrection Batman.
Rogershaw said:
Can you identify your steering pump thom these

https://www.vetus.com/en/steering-systems/steering-pumps.html

The ones at the bottom with the block on the back are the pilot operated non return valves.

Vetus also have a seperate valve block like this.

https://www.vetus.com/en/steering-s...rn-valve-block-k30-140-for-mtc-cylinders.html
Click to expand...
I finally got around to checking what type of pump I have. It's a Vetus MTP30. And it's definitely not leaking, I cracked off the pump/reservoir cap and its toppers with hydraulic fluid.

I'm guessing then that I could simply either

A) plumb in a non return valve
or
B) replace the pump with a more modern Vetus pump incorporating a non return valve (probably nearly as cheap as servicing my current pump and then fitting a non return valve)

And then I'd be tickety-boo for adding a wind vane?
 
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Our hydraulic steering has a non-return valve and the wheel still goes out of alignment with the rudder, so I don't think a wind vane connected to the wheel steering would work. Our boat has a hydrovane though which gets around this problem.
 
SV Kittiwake said:
Our hydraulic steering has a non-return valve and the wheel still goes out of alignment with the rudder, so I don't think a wind vane connected to the wheel steering would work. Our boat has a hydrovane though which gets around this problem.
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The slippage in hydraulic steering is common due to the oil seeping past the cylinder and pump seals.

This is why I modified my monitor self steering gear to drive an auxiliary rudder.
 
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