Vega 27 Yacht Registration / Vessel Nationality / Flag Rules

[Buck Turgidson]

Why? My boat based in EU is on SSR in my name (as a UK resident) and there's nothing to stop you or anyone else using it with my permission.

There is a prohibition to this. He could sell it to his mother to get around the prohibition but even that is shady. I went through the process when I bought my boat and found a Part 1 registered yacht specifically for this reason.

He can register part 1 and sail to the UK for tonnage survey. You get I think 3 months grace but he should check the details as my knowledge is all 4 years out of date now.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I am a UK/German citizen (both passports), I am a resident in Germany, and my boat is UK flagged, registered on part 1 and permanently based in Croatia.

When I bought it, it was Croatian registered/flagged and always had been. So I was in a similar situation to you with no real "home country" to register the boat.

My sailing qualifications are also UK (RYA) as is my ships radio licence.

After much consideration, as you are currently doing, I decided the best solution was UK Ships Register Part 1, which meant a tonnage survey and quite a lot of effort to track down the ownership history going back 10 years - but it was worth it once it was all over. Now I have a clean set of paperwork for the boat where everything from qualifications to insurance matches the country of registration.

Required Documents for Part I Registration The following documents are required for Part I registration:

▪ Application to Register – MSF 4740 (A)
▪ Declaration of Eligibility – MSF 4727
▪ Bill of Sale (for existing ships) – MSF 4705
▪ Copy of Certificate of Incorporation (if owner is a body corporate)
▪ Certificate of Survey for Tonnage & Measurement
▪ Deletion certificate/transcript from the current register or a written undertaking to provide one within six weeks
▪ Mortgage registration forms (if appropriate)

https://assets.publishing.service.g...033/2019_April_A_Guide_to_Registration_V4.pdf

The people at the ships registry in the UK were very helpful and were always on hand to answer any questions.

Some other points to note - I don't know about Finland, but in Germany I am not allowed to purchase flares as I don't have the relevant german qualification and the UK has no equivalent. To get the german one, it is an addendum to your German sailing qualification, so I'd need to repeat my RYA quals on the German system to get the authorisation to buy flares. As a result I buy my flares in Italy on my way to the boat (I can't buy them in Croatia either).

I have found that keeping everything from one country, in my case the UK, makes everything a bit simpler in the long term - mixing qualifications, registration, insurance etc. makes all the paperwork a bit of a hotch-potch and confuses the authorities on the ground when you have paperwork issued by multiple countries.

That was my experience and I am glad I went down the UK part 1 route.

PS: Just noticed you are under time pressure, the part 1 took a long time, even after the tonnage survey was done (you can find UK part 1 qualified surveyors in most EU countries). Don't know how you are planning to get the boat to the med, but if going via the UK then sort it all out in the UK before heading further south - I'd put it on the SSR while UK resident and sort out the part 1 later.

 

[Tranona]

Why? My boat based in EU is on SSR in my name (as a UK resident) and there's nothing to stop you or anyone else using it with my permission.

You are using your boat yourself. Perfectly legitimate - even if the SSR was never intended for situations like yours!

 

[Tranona]

Sorry I should have mentioned we will not be staying in Finland. We plan to depart Finland for the Mediterranean at the end of this month and although I am presently a Finnish resident I intend to register residence elsewhere in Europe (undecided).

I am currently unable to register vessel nationality in Finland as they have requested an EU passport (Irish passport is still processing). I'm unable to register it in the UKSR on part 3 as I'm not a UK resident and part 1 requires a vessel survey which would likely delay our departure and significantly deplete our sailing funds.

What would be the implications of asking my mother to register as part 3 on the UKSR until we have registered residency elsewhere in Europe?

Our planned departure date is the 28th of July so I'm somewhat desperate to resolve the issue ASAP.

Thank you for all the help and suggestions.

The least risky way is to use your mother's address as if it were your own and it may go through. The potential problem is that unlike in the past when there was little scrutiny, MCA have tightened up both the definitions of who is eligible and making further checks. I have not gone the whole way through the current application process as my last new registration was in 2015 but I gather it asks more questions now. This was primarily driven by many EU citizens (Greek, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese particularly) avoiding the onerous requirement of national resident and using their brother/cousin/mate etc address in UK as a front to get British registration. The residence rather than nationality requirement reflects the large numbers of non UK citizens who live in UK and keep boats here.

If it goes through then you are OK for 5 years - but if not, my story would be that you are relocating back to the UK and bringing the boat back with you and it needs to be registered - at least half the truth if you are a gambling man. If you intend keeping the boat for some time and travelling around then I would seriously look at the suggestion of getting temporary Part 1 (if you have the provenance on the boat) and stopping in the UK to get the survey done if you can't get it done in Finland. You will find wherever you end up local registration will be difficult and your basic dilemma will always be with you and your boat.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I am a UK/German citizen (both passports), I am a resident in Germany, and my boat is UK flagged, registered on part 1 and permanently based in Croatia.

When I bought it, it was Croatian registered/flagged and always had been. So I was in a similar situation to you with no real "home country" to register the boat.

My sailing qualifications are also UK (RYA) as is my ships radio licence.

After much consideration, as you are currently doing, I decided the best solution was UK Ships Register Part 1, which meant a tonnage survey and quite a lot of effort to track down the ownership history going back 10 years - but it was worth it once it was all over. Now I have a clean set of paperwork for the boat where everything from qualifications to insurance matches the country of registration.



https://assets.publishing.service.g...033/2019_April_A_Guide_to_Registration_V4.pdf

The people at the ships registry in the UK were very helpful and were always on hand to answer any questions.

Some other points to note - I don't know about Finland, but in Germany I am not allowed to purchase flares as I don't have the relevant german qualification and the UK has no equivalent. To get the german one, it is an addendum to your German sailing qualification, so I'd need to repeat my RYA quals on the German system to get the authorisation to buy flares. As a result I buy my flares in Italy on my way to the boat (I can't buy them in Croatia either).

I have found that keeping everything from one country, in my case the UK, makes everything a bit simpler in the long term - mixing qualifications, registration, insurance etc. makes all the paperwork a bit of a hotch-potch and confuses the authorities on the ground when you have paperwork issued by multiple countries.

That was my experience and I am glad I went down the UK part 1 route.

PS: Just noticed you are under time pressure, the part 1 took a long time, even after the tonnage survey was done (you can find UK part 1 qualified surveyors in most EU countries). Don't know how you are planning to get the boat to the med, but if going via the UK then sort it all out in the UK before heading further south - I'd put it on the SSR while UK resident and sort out the part 1 later.

He doesn't qualify for part 3 and wouldn't with a short stop in the UK.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

The least risky way is to use your mother's address as if it were your own and it may go through. The potential problem is that unlike in the past when there was little scrutiny, MCA have tightened up both the definitions of who is eligible and making further checks. I have not gone the whole way through the current application process as my last new registration was in 2015 but I gather it asks more questions now. This was primarily driven by many EU citizens (Greek, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese particularly) avoiding the onerous requirement of national resident and using their brother/cousin/mate etc address in UK as a front to get British registration. The residence rather than nationality requirement reflects the large numbers of non UK citizens who live in UK and keep boats here.

If it goes through then you are OK for 5 years - but if not, my story would be that you are relocating back to the UK and bringing the boat back with you and it needs to be registered - at least half the truth if you are a gambling man. If you intend keeping the boat for some time and travelling around then I would seriously look at the suggestion of getting temporary Part 1 (if you have the provenance on the boat) and stopping in the UK to get the survey done if you can't get it done in Finland. You will find wherever you end up local registration will be difficult and your basic dilemma will always be with you and your boat.

All the owners on the Part 3 declaration must meet the UK primary residence test which requires at least 183 days in the UK per year. He cannot legally be the owner or part owner of a part 3 registered yacht.

 

[lustyd]

Yes it was a real hassle having someone show up at my house every day for 6 months…

sorry, kidding.I can’t see how this is being checked, they even emailed the certificate before sending an identical paper copy

 

[Tranona]

All the owners on the Part 3 declaration must meet the UK primary residence test which requires at least 183 days in the UK per year. He cannot legally be the owner or part owner of a part 3 registered yacht.

I know, but in the past the registry have been known to issue Part 3 to returning residents so that they can move their boats. In fact in earlier times as I explained there were no checks and the OP could have easily done it on line - not that I am suggesting that was a good thing. The suggestion for stopping in the UK was in connection with getting a survey for Part 1 if that was more convenient that getting it done in Finland. Often it is not the survey or its cost that is the barrier, but the provenance to show title.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I know, but in the past the registry have been known to issue Part 3 to returning residents so that they can move their boats. In fact in earlier times as I explained there were no checks and the OP could have easily done it on line - not that I am suggesting that was a good thing. The suggestion for stopping in the UK was in connection with getting a survey for Part 1 if that was more convenient that getting it done in Finland. Often it is not the survey or its cost that is the barrier, but the provenance to show title.

It was the provenance to show title that cost me the most time. I tracked down the original order via Bavaria, that lead to a leasing company in Austria who provided me with their original invoice - they sold it on to the Croatian Charter Company, who eventually provided me with their invoice - then I had to get them all stamped with "Paid in Full" and eventually it all got accepted by the UK Ships Register. Took a good few months.

 

[UCVega27]

The more I read and research the more I like the Polish registration option. I wonder what people's thoughts are on registering it under the Polish register?

 

[Tranona]

Lot of talk about it as a consequence of Brexit when some thought it might be a way of overcoming the restrictions (for UK residents) of using and keeping their boats in the EU - which it doesn't! Registration is nothing to do with EU law, but International Law and in theory is only relevant at a state level in respect of visitors needing to have an identity for their boat. However individual states are responsible for registration of boats and as you have discovered they determine their own rules for who and what are eligible.

It seems that Polish registration is acceptable as state registration by other states and has more open rules on eligibility so worth considering.