Vega 27 Yacht Registration / Vessel Nationality / Flag Rules

[UCVega27]

Hi, I'm completely new to sailing so please forgive my ignorance.

I recently bought an Albin Vega 27 and love it however I am having issues with the vessel nationality. I am an Irish passport & UK passport holder currently resident in Finland. I have registered the yacht in the Finnish watercraft register however the registration card states "Not valid as a certificate of nationality" disqualifying me from flying the Finnish flag and from obtaining a ship station radio license.

Am I able to sail in EU waters without a vessel's nationality but with a watercraft registration certificate? Would sailing in the EU without a vessel flag cause me issues?

From what I understand it is not straightforward or practical to register the boat in the Irish vessel register due to tonnage surveys being required. I am also unable to register it in the UK as the yacht will permanently be in the EU.

Any help or suggestions would be appricaiated.

TIA Chris

 

[webcraft]

Is the vessel not already registered?

Where did you buy it?

Vessel registration is a separate issue from both nationality of the owner and the place the boat is kept. My understanding is that if the boat is already UK-flagged you can keep it that way, your own nationality and place of residence notwithstanding.

- W

 

[UCVega27]

Is the vessel not already registered?

Where did you buy it?

Vessel registration is a separate issue from both nationality of the owner and the place the boat is kept. My understanding is that if the boat is already UK-flagged you can keep it that way, your own nationality and place of residence notwithstanding.

- W

Hi thanks for taking the time to reply.

The yacht is already registered in Finland and to the best of my knowledge always has been. I ha

 

[UCVega27]

Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply.

The yacht is already registered in Finland and to the best of my knowledge always has been. I have transferred the registration to my name. The rules in Finland state I am unable to fly the Finnish flag as only Finnish citizens can do so regardless of the fact the yacht is registered in Finland. I have attached a photo.

 

[Tranona]

There might be an "official" Finnish registration that does allow you to have the flag. You find Finnish vessels in many places outside Finland so there must be a mechanism, although it may only be open to nationals.

Yes, if you are travelling out of Finland you do need to have the boat on a recognised register. Nothing to do with the EU, but international law. There is no problem with you registering on the UK or Irish register, or one of the Channel Islands as you are eligible. However, as you say all require a tonnage survey and a representative in their state (not onerous, just an address). All of these registrations will be acceptable in Finland and anywhere else you wish to travel.

The tonnage survey is not really a big deal, I expect their is an approved measurer in Finland. You will need to prove the history of the boat as these are registers of title as well as nationality.

 

[UCVega27]

There might be an "official" Finnish registration that does allow you to have the flag. You find Finnish vessels in many places outside Finland so there must be a mechanism, although it may only be open to nationals.

Yes, if you are travelling out of Finland you do need to have the boat on a recognised register. Nothing to do with the EU, but international law. There is no problem with you registering on the UK or Irish register, or one of the Channel Islands as you are eligible. However, as you say all require a tonnage survey and a representative in their state (not onerous, just an address). All of these registrations will be acceptable in Finland and anywhere else you wish to travel.

The tonnage survey is not really a big deal, I expect their is an approved measurer in Finland. You will need to prove the history of the boat as these are registers of title as well as nationality.

Hi Tranona thanks for the reply.

Sorry for the delay in replying my posts need to be approved by a mod as I'm a new user.

I believe it is in an official register (please see the attached above) but I'm not entitled to fly the Finnish flag. Can I sail with just the registration certificate or is it compulsory to fly a vessels flag in the EU?

 

[Tranona]

No. Under international law you have to fly a flag to identify the nationality of the boat and support it with evidence. Usually the evidence is a registration certificate.

It is not uncommon for the registration and flag to be different from the state where the boat is kept - there are thousands of British registered yachts kept across Europe (and indeed the world). The only practical registers you can use as you are not allowed Finnish registration are the ones I have already suggested. Others in your situation such as Irish Rover who posts on here from Turkey have found the Guernsey or Jersey registries the easiest to deal with as non residents are probably the biggest users of their register.

 

[UCVega27]

No. Under international law you have to fly a flag to identify the nationality of the boat and support it with evidence. Usually the evidence is a registration certificate.

It is not uncommon for the registration and flag to be different from the state where the boat is kept - there are thousands of British registered yachts kept across Europe (and indeed the world). The only practical registers you can use as you are not allowed Finnish registration are the ones I have already suggested. Others in your situation such as Irish Rover who posts on here from Turkey have found the Guernsey or Jersey registries the easiest to deal with as non residents are probably the biggest users of their register.

Thanks for the help and sorry for the delayed reply. I have registered it with UKSR under part 3. Again thanks for the help and happy sailing.

 

[lustyd]

If you live in Finland you’ll need part one as part 3 (ssr) has a residency requirement.

 

[UCVega27]

@lustyd it says on ukshipregister.service.mcga.gov.uk that one only needs to be a British Citizen. Could you please confirm as I believe the site is still in Beta mode?

Edit: gov.uk/ mentions the residence rule for part 3. The issue with part 1 is a UK certificate of survey for tonnage and measurement issued with a 12 month period is required.

Would it be possible my mother (UK resident) to register the boat under part 3? The boat is EU VAT paid and I have no intention of taking it to the UK.

 

[lustyd]

Yes it's a nightmare, isn't it! I've never dealt with part one surveys but the others above seem to know all about it.

Now that you have part 3 you do have the choice to ignore it (this is not advice!!). You have a piece of paper (or soon will) showing your boat is registered for anyone who is interested. You also have the apparent right to wear the red ensign. If an official ever questioned it then you could quite happily plead ignorance and I doubt there would be big consequences, you do after all have British citizenship and a British registered yacht. If you'll be going further afield then I'd consider doing it properly though, just in case.

 

[UCVega27]

Yes it's a nightmare, isn't it! I've never dealt with part one surveys but the others above seem to know all about it.

Now that you have part 3 you do have the choice to ignore it (this is not advice!!). You have a piece of paper (or soon will) showing your boat is registered for anyone who is interested. You also have the apparent right to wear the red ensign. If an official ever questioned it then you could quite happily plead ignorance and I doubt there would be big consequences, you do after all have British citizenship and a British registered yacht. If you'll be going further afield then I'd consider doing it properly though, just in case.

I will only be sailing in EU waters, Finland, Sweden, Germany and France. Sorry although I wrote in the early post I had registered it on part 3 I have yet to hit the submit button. Could I ask my mother to register it in her name? Would it cause any issues? Thank you for the help.

 

[lustyd]

Part one means registering the owner so yes, it could cause inheritance tax issues for you down the road. If you're likely to sail to france I'd consider stopping in the UK on the way and get it registered to yourself. Tranona suggested you can get the survey in Finland for UK registration so I'd follow that up as a first option

 

[Tranona]

@lustyd it says on ukshipregister.service.mcga.gov.uk that one only needs to be a British Citizen. Could you please confirm as I believe the site is still in Beta mode?

Edit: gov.uk/ mentions the residence rule for part 3. The issue with part 1 is a UK certificate of survey for tonnage and measurement issued with a 12 month period is required.

Would it be possible my mother (UK resident) to register the boat under part 3? The boat is EU VAT paid and I have no intention of taking it to the UK.

Part 3 is not available to you unless you are "established in the UK" which effectively means resident . The registration is specifically established to meet the international law requirements that boats should show their state of registration and is specifically limited to UK residents. From what you say you would not meet the residence requirement, nor could your mother put her name on registration if you are keeping it and using it in Finland.

So, I am afraid the advice in post#7 applies and you can only register on Part 1 (or use another Red Ensign registry).

 

[UCVega27]

Part 3 is not available to you unless you are "established in the UK" which effectively means resident . The registration is specifically established to meet the international law requirements that boats should show their state of registration and is specifically limited to UK residents. From what you say you would not meet the residence requirement, nor could your mother put her name on registration if you are keeping it and using it in Finland.

So, I am afraid the advice in post#7 applies and you can only register on Part 1 (or use another Red Ensign registry).

Sorry I should have mentioned we will not be staying in Finland. We plan to depart Finland for the Mediterranean at the end of this month and although I am presently a Finnish resident I intend to register residence elsewhere in Europe (undecided).

I am currently unable to register vessel nationality in Finland as they have requested an EU passport (Irish passport is still processing). I'm unable to register it in the UKSR on part 3 as I'm not a UK resident and part 1 requires a vessel survey which would likely delay our departure and significantly deplete our sailing funds.

What would be the implications of asking my mother to register as part 3 on the UKSR until we have registered residency elsewhere in Europe?

Our planned departure date is the 28th of July so I'm somewhat desperate to resolve the issue ASAP.

Thank you for all the help and suggestions.

 

[Bilgediver]

If you live in Finland you’ll need part one as part 3 (ssr) has a residency requirement.

I do not believe he can have Part 1 as it is restricted to British Citizens and British Companies as is the equivalent world wide. One reason for SSR (Part3) which is more relaxed. This is part of international ship law. I believe he can always register in The State of Delaware in the USA ,. They are totally relaxed


Eligibility criteria for UK registered ship

 

[Graham376]

nor could your mother put her name on registration if you are keeping it and using it in Finland.

Why? My boat based in EU is on SSR in my name (as a UK resident) and there's nothing to stop you or anyone else using it with my permission.

 

[UCVega27]

Why? My boat based in EU is on SSR in my name (as a UK resident) and there's nothing to stop you or anyone else using it with my permission.

That is exactly what I had hoped/thought. I'm guessing it would be of benefit to keep a written record of permission to use the vessel? I appreciate this isn't a long-term solution but it would enable us to keep our schedule, prove the vessel nationality and avoid the additional cost of a vessel survey (for part1).

 

[Graham376]

Yes, unless anyone can come up with valid reason it can't be done, you would need written permission and, depending on which countries to be visited, maybe best to have it notorised. SSR (Part 3) isn't proof of ownership rather like a car, it's just the name of the person it's registered to.

 

[UCVega27]

I do not believe he can have Part 1 as it is restricted to British Citizens and British Companies as is the equivalent world wide. One reason for SSR (Part3) which is more relaxed. This is part of international ship law. I believe he can always register in The State of Delaware in the USA ,. They are totally relaxed


Eligibility criteria for UK registered ship

Thanks for the reply. I am a British citizen just not a British resident so part 1 is available to me but it requires a tonnage survey.

The Delaware option looks interesting as does the Polish registration option but in all likelihood I will register it on part 1 of the UKSR once we know if we can live/survive on a 27ft boat.