VAT paperwork

N

Novice21

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 Nov 2007
Messages
174
Location
Essex
Visit site
We're just about to sign the deal on our first boat... everything seems in order, except for there being no VAT paperwork, which the RYA recommend you have. Has anyone ever had any issues with this? How important is it?
 
What age is the boat etc?

For an older, less expensive boat, maybe not such a big deal.... for a newish, expensive craft, then maybe a bit more serious.....

My experience is that VAT evidence rarely gets asked for, and even less so on boats that don't look brand new.....

But....

It does potential affect re-sale value... so be warned...
 
From my previous experience with missing vat documentation on my last boat and several others that I viewed... How olds the boat? how big is the boat / is it suitable to leave UK waters (is this likely) If its old and gone through several owners, eg 10yrs it may not have the original vat receipt anymore.
If you can figure out the original dealer you may be able to get a copy from them, are there any dealer stickers on the transom etc?
If no more info is found you will need to ensure you have a bill of sales so that any VAT issue when not in the UK 'should' be considered an issue for UK customs.
 
You will get a lot of opinions on this and there are lots of previous posts to search for.

Ideally you should have a VAT trail, but first what sort of price range are you looking at, the higher the value the more you want a VAT invoice!
 
The boat is 30 years old, and has been with the same owner for the last 15. We're paying £3,000. What's the worst that could happen, in theory? The boat would be impounded? We'd have to pay a fine?
 
Blimey... you're lucky to have any paperwork at all!

I think the boat is exempt from VAT at that age..... and if not, then the worst case scenario is that you have to pay vat at £525 in the future if you get caught..... very very unlikely, and not earth shattering.....
 
I don't think you have anything to worry about. The worst case is that a future buyer might want a VAT invoice or ask for 17% off the purchase price, but I did not find that with a boat in a higher price bracket. UK Customs will not chase you for the VAT. Can you get a trail of any Bills of Sale before the current owner?
 
Key purchase issues/deal busters:

1. Is the boat free of all debt - can the vendor verify this? No warranty - no deal

2. Paper trail of previous owners back to first sale? Original documents, no copies. Good reasons for gaps?

3. Boat built since 1985? Where's the original VAT paid document? No papers - no deal.

You will find others on this forum advising a more moderate view - and they are right in the sense that rarely do officials board and demand to see such things. But they have the right, and you have the obligation, and the penalties are you pay the VAT again. Right there and then!

Nothing in life is 100% so a balanced judgement is advisable here. Look at it this way, folks who take pride in their boats and take care of the maintenance etc are pretty sure to have the paperwork in fair order. You know the rule - better to stay in the cheapest room in a good hotel than the best suite in a doss house!

But there is always another deal....caveat emptor rules supreme!

PWG
 
We're using the Bill of Sale form from the RYA, so signing that commits the seller to there not being any debts. Also, he's actually a personal friend, so I have no worries there. He's got the paper trail in respect tp ownership through the years. As for the hotel annalogy, I know what you mean, but this is our first boat, like a 17 yr olds first car - a bit of a banger, on which we will learn - both sailing skills and maintenance. If we upgrade in a couple of years, the priorities will be different.
 
VAT came in here in 1972. By the time a boat gets to 20-30 years old it is actually more common for original VAT paperwork to be lost than still with the boat. If you will only buy with proof of VAT you are missing many good boats. On a £3,000 30 year old boat the chances of your being asked for proof are almost astronomically low, unless you set out to piss of a Customs official. On a £300,000 3-year old boat the chance of being asked for VAT proof is still lowish, but you'd very definitely want the proof!

The "built pre 1985/in EU end 92" 'deemed VAT paid amnesty' is almost always useless, as even boats that comply have by now lost the proof of where they were at the stroke of midnight on Dec 31 1992.
 
I've has three boats in the last 20 years and never been asked for vat papers. Its always possible that you are asked (as indeed you could be asked top prove the vat status of your car) but it seems pretty unlikely in the UK. If you were to cross the channel it might be different (though again I've never been asked) but I cant see you crossing the chanel in a £3k boat. So your biggest likely risk is that you have problems re-selling the boat when the time comes and it effectively costs you 17.5% of 3k.

Yes you ought to have full paperwork covering vat whatever the value and age of the boat. As to what will happen if you havent got the papers - we can only guess.

And before any pedant picks me up on it, "VAT paperwork" includes the papers that proves your boat is too old to have ever been liable for vat and the papers to prove your boat was in the EU at the relevant date.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The "built pre 1985/in EU end 92" 'deemed VAT paid amnesty' is almost always useless, as even boats that comply have by now lost the proof of where they were at the stroke of midnight on Dec 31 1992.

[/ QUOTE ]I disagree, it does actually work and in favour of the boat owner. Customs people are actually very human and they understand the difficulty of keeping specific records for more than 15 years. This means that if you have a boat that is obviously older than that, the burden of proof is very light and I would not worry about it at all. If you have a newish high value boat, you should make sure you have your VAT paid proof. Especially if you are in coastal areas where you could have potentially arrived from outside the EU.

I have been tested on this 'VAT deemed paid' rule in a very high value boat (+$1m, and no it was not mine). Both the French and Spanish customs were happy with my pretty basic documentation showing the boat being built and resident in the EU prior to 1993.
 
I think the RYA did a survey and couldnt find anybody that had been picked on and decided it was in fact a non problem.
 
Just what we were wondering this morning - if you buy a car, and the dealer doesn't pay the VAT, surely the dealer is the one who will be in trouble? Why are boats different?
 
In principle, boats are not different. If you buy a car in Germany and want to register it in the UK, you will be asked for VAT receipts. If you cannot provide any, you will be charged VAT again. Same if you buy a camper van in Ukraine; you will be charged for VAT when found in the EU.

But the real answer is that boats are more mobile over longer distances and therefore there is a larger chance of it being imported from a non-EU VAT area. Hence the higher interest from the taxman. Add to that there are many expensive yachts around where the size of a VAT bill collection will make it worthwhile for the customs people to dig.

But I also agree with the posts above; this is not a big problem. I have been checked for VAT twice in my life, but only on a large expensive yacht just completing an Atlantic crossing.
 
OK, well, VAT was the only thing on my list to worry about, and as that seems not to be a problem after all, there's no reason not to sign tomorrow! Hooray!

Now I need a new list of things to worry about, like how to get this boat up to scratch and keep it there, and whether I can sail it!! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
I had a full VAT inspection via a spot check by Customs in a marina in Germany. I could prove VAT paid so was OK.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

A
Newbie question!
Replies
9
Views
490
Jacana139
Jacana139

Share this page

Top