VAT paid status expires 1st Jan 2021 for UK registered boats kept abroad long term . 30,000 boats probably affected

[syvictoria]

The UK government has bigger issues to sort than the privilege of non-working people to spend more than 90 days in another country where they don't have residence.

Who said anything about "non-working"!!!? That's something of an assumption and certainly doesn't apply to all.

 

[goeasy123]

The UK government has bigger issues to sort than the privilege of non-working people to spend more than 90 days in another country where they don't have residence.

Indeed they do. Like addressing the damage HMRC's decision will have on the £3bn per year industry that employs 33,000 people.

 

[awol]

"Marooned" in England? Have you been barred from returning due to some dark deed? Wearing underpants under the kilt perhaps or consumption of Australian whisky.

Probably missionary work, trying to civilise and educate the indigent population.

 

[goeasy123]

Not being a Vat or tax specialist this may sound stupid to many on here but:-
if it were deemed that your boat was "exported" at some time prior to brexit, and they now intend to charge you vat on its return to uk, then surely there is a claim that can be made for return of original vat paid as as result of the leaving the uk in the first place? What's good for the goose ..............? If this is true then the vat man is going to lose far more than he stands to gain.
Or we just say we exported them on the 1st January and claim the vat back.
Not going to fly I know but it seems so unfair to tax the same person twice on the same goods. Maybe an angle in there somewhere.

You are correct. Owners can't do anything until we leave on the 31st, but after that a boat VAT paid in the UK, but not in the UK can be declared by the owner to be exported.

Maybe a bunch of owners effected could collectively apply for a VAT refund and see what happens. PM me if you're interested.

It should also be noted that after the transition, if a boat, UK VAT paid, leaves the UK with the intention of spending more 3 years away it should reclaim the VAT (amount £A). If it returns it can have free circulation in UK waters by paying VAT at the then current rate and value of the boat (amount £B). Unless the VAT rate changes B will be smaller than A and the owner will make a small profit.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Probably missionary work, trying to civilise and educate the indigent population.

Wouldn't disagree with that!

 

[Bristolfashion]

The UK government has bigger issues to sort than the privilege of non-working people to spend more than 90 days in another country where they don't have residence.

Yes, where did the pejorative use of "non-working" creep in? Loads of people work remotely these days. In addition, the retired have slaved their lives and are entitled to be a bit miffed at one of their retirement dreams being dashed. Then there are people on well-earned career breaks / sabbaticals.

We were planning an extended period of studying Spanish in Spain (yes, whilst being entirely self-sufficient with our little business). Not so easy now.

 

[Graham376]

Maybe a bunch of owners effected could collectively apply for a VAT refund and see what happens. PM me if you're interested.

I doubt anyone but the original purchaser can have any chance of reclaiming VAT and that would no doubt only apply to a new boat being exported.

As goeasy123 says, anyone buying a new boat in the UK from January onwards may be able to save a bundle by exporting it immediately to an EU port VAT free and then re-importing at a later date at reduced second hand value.

 

[greeny]

I doubt anyone but the original purchaser can have any chance of reclaiming VAT and that would no doubt only apply to a new boat being exported.

As goeasy123 says, anyone buying a new boat in the UK from January onwards may be able to save a bundle by exporting it immediately to an EU port VAT free and then re-importing at a later date at reduced second hand value.

Agreed, but if you are the original owner and they retrospectively declare your boat exported then surely you can then retrospectively claim the vat back. As I said before - Whats good for the goose,................................

 

[Graham376]

Agreed, but if you are the original owner and they retrospectively declare your boat exported then surely you can then retrospectively claim the vat back. As I said before - Whats good for the goose,................................

It may come under the rules for the Retail Export Scheme which is also stopping.

 

[RAI]

If you want VAT back, do you need a VAT number?
The builder of a new boat could perhaps get the VAT back if he exports the boat for the customer.
Only would not a UK VAT free export be subject to VAT in the country it was exported to?

 

[syvictoria]

If you want VAT back, do you need a VAT number?
The builder of a new boat could perhaps get the VAT back if he exports the boat for the customer.
Only would not a UK VAT free export be subject to VAT in the country it was exported to?

Not for 18 months after 31/12?

 

[goeasy123]

I doubt anyone but the original purchaser can have any chance of reclaiming VAT and that would no doubt only apply to a new boat being exported.

As goeasy123 says, anyone buying a new boat in the UK from January onwards may be able to save a bundle by exporting it immediately to an EU port VAT free and then re-importing at a later date at reduced second hand value.

There is a get around. You can form a company that buys the boat for commercial charter. HMRC's documentation warns against this, but makes it clear what you can and can't do. Do what you can do and you get a VAT refund.

The previous 2 owners of my current boat did it. They reclaimed VAT at a higher level than they repaid when they took it back into private ownership. They also reclaimed all the VAT on marina fees, maintenance and upgrades. Neither of them was the original seller and none of the transaction were deemed to be on a new boat.

During the time when the boat was not VAT paid it spent most of it's time in UK waters. It sailed in EU waters under TA rules and when the owner wanted to spend extended time the Med he put into private ownership.

The first owner was a US citizen the second UK.

 

[viago]

Just book and pay for a berth for the yacht in UK over the new year. Keep the receipt with dates and name of yacht. Then let the inland revenue prove a few years later it wasn't on berth at that time.

very good. it could just be that the mooring will cost more than the vat.

then there's the small matter of fraud.

 

[awol]

then there's the small matter of fraud.

Wouldn't that count as breaking the law in a "very specific and limited way"?

 

[dunedin]

Just book and pay for a berth for the yacht in UK over the new year. Keep the receipt with dates and name of yacht. Then let the inland revenue prove a few years later it wasn't on berth at that time.

If presented as evidence of not requiring to pay VAT in future, that would of course be tax evasion, a criminal offence.

 

[goeasy123]

If presented as evidence of not requiring to pay VAT in future, that would of course be tax evasion, a criminal offence.

Back before EU-times that would be.... pay VAT, pay fine, lose boat, go to jail.

Even coming into the UK, not through a customs port of entry, would mean a fine.

viago: moorings will be cheap and empty due to the lack of boats.

Up side.... you'll be able to buy cheap customs seized boat at the police auctions in Southampton.

 

[pathfinderstu]

Who said anything about "non-working"!!!? That's something of an assumption and certainly doesn't apply to all.

Agreed, but you are the original owner and they retrospectively declare your boat exported then surely you can then retrospectively claim the vat back. As I said before - Whats good for the goose,................................

Yes but you would probably have to pay import duty to the recipient country. At the moment Turkey is charging 1%. Tax on new boat taxes, I have just bought a new Jeannaeu there with 11% discount on the official price list.......worth a thought...

 

[tudorsailor]

Shame one cannot come back to the UK like a visitor from any other country would do. I would like to bring the yacht back for a winter to get work done, but it seems I would be liable for paying VAT on entry.
TS

 

[goeasy123]

Shame one cannot come back to the UK like a visitor from any other country would do. I would like to bring the yacht back for a winter to get work done, but it seems I would be liable for paying VAT on entry.
TS

TS, you and a lot of others according to the CA.

I'm not hearing a lot of noise from the industry.... yards, marinas, brokers and the like. I wonder why? It's going to hit them hard.

 

[Seven Spades]

I think that this thread is confusing two different reliefs. There is the returned goods relief for boats that have been outside UK waters and return within 3 years provided that they have not changed hands. This is being enforced to the three year limit. It is not a change in legislation only in application. For those circumnavigating there is a different relief for non-residents which allows "personal possessions" even if they have been purchased abroad to be brought back to the UK and are exempt of tax and duty. To obtain this relief you have to be a non-resident for tax purposes so it is important not to come back to the UK in yopur year of return and make sure your accountants sort it out with HMRC.

In the past, HMRC have not really bothered because the 3-year returned gods rule seems to be over ridden by the personal possessions rule, in effect the change will affect UK residents who have kept boats abroad and not sail around the world live-aboards.