VAT Invoice on 2nd hand boat

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Arigatou

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Our boat was built in Cape Town in early 90's and had changed hands twice before we bought her. There was no VAT invoice amongst the paperwork. In France we were boarded by officials who wanted to see the VAT invoice. How do we go about obtaining one? We do have paperwork to show the various changes of ownership. This aspect of boating is new to us as in S Africa, there is no paperwork required for VAT on secondhand goods. Anyone who can shed any light on this?
 
any non eu vessel brought into the eu by an eu citizen is liable for vat,siezure of the vessel by customs untill vat is paid is not abnormal.

if you are non eu residents you can get temp import for 18 months
 
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VAT should have been paid on the 1st time the yacht was imported into europe. If that was not done then you are liable for the VAT.

If you are not EU flagged and are just visiting then you are not importing so no VAT as long as you leave in accordance with your visa and the VAT exemption (18 month's I believe)
 
Sorry, should have explained a little better in my thread. We bought the boat in Gosport and VAT has already been paid on it. We are british although brought up in S Africa. The only thing we dont have proof of is that VAT was already paid.
 
better contact the previous owner or broker and find that reicpt,the owness is on you to furnish the correct documents to the customs.
though since the vessel is uk registered you could argue that it is a case for the uk tax office,un less the vessel is based in france.
 
4.2 What documents will be required to provide proof of the VAT status on a used vessel?

EU residents should only use a vessel in the Community if it is VAT paid or ‘deemed’ VAT paid. Documentary evidence supporting this should be carried at all times as you may be asked by customs officials to provide evidence of your vessel’s VAT status, either in the UK or in other Member States. Documentary evidence might include:
■ original invoice or receipt;
■ evidence that VAT was paid at importation; and/or
■ invoices for materials used in the construction of a ‘Home-Built’ vessel.

A registration document on its own does not prove the VAT status of the vessel, as there is no link in the UK between the registry of the vessel and the payment of VAT. If you have difficulty in providing the information, you should contact the VAT, Excise & Customs helpline on 0845 010 9000.

Certain vessels that were in use as private pleasure craft prior to 1 January 1985 and were in the EU on 31 December 1992, may be deemed VAT paid under the Single Market transitional arrangements. As Austria, Finland and Sweden joined the EU later, the relevant dates for vessels in these countries are ‘in use’ before 1 January 1987 and moored in EU on 31 December 1994.

After this date there were no further transitional arrangements agreed by the EU Commission for subsequent EU expansions.

The following documents are useful to prove the age and location of the vessel:





For age


For location




Marine survey



Receipt for mooring





Part 1 Registration



Receipt for harbour dues





Insurance documents



Dry dock records





Builders certificate





If you are unable to provide any of the above for used vessels kept in the UK you should, whilst cruising within the EU, carry a Bill of Sale (if applicable and between two private individuals in the UK). Whilst this is not conclusive proof that VAT has been paid, it does indicate that the tax status is the responsibility of UK customs authorities. It is also advisable to contact the relevant authorities in the Member State you intend to visit, or their Embassy in the UK, to confirm what documentation will be required in advance of your voyage.

When buying a used pleasure craft from any VAT registered business in the EU, you should ensure that the invoice shows separately any VAT which that business has charged to you on supply of the pleasure craft. If the invoice does not show VAT separately you may have difficulty in demonstrating that VAT has been paid. If you are buying from a business that does not charge VAT on the transaction or from a private individual in the EU and the seller states that VAT has previously been paid on the vessel, you should obtain evidence from the seller that VAT has previously been accounted for.
quote http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...MCE_CL_000289&propertyType=document#P92_10963
 
Just to add a bit more. Customs were interested because of the origin of the boat. There was no VAT involved in your purchase from the private individual (assuming it was an EU resident), and in most cases the lack of a VAT invoice is not a big problem if the boat was built in EU and has always been there.

However, if a boat is imported then VAT is due on importation and is payable directly to customs and a receipt is issued. This receipt is the ONLY evidence that VAT has been paid and should be kept with the boat. Customs do not keep any record of payments. If it is not there, then VAT could still be payable, but it is the responsibility of the person who imported the boat, not you. Unfortunately though the liability stays with the boat, so it is technically possible for HMRC to seize the boat in lieu of payment. Note, that in principle French customs cannot take any action against you as the responsibility for any VAT issues lies in the state where the last transaction took place - that is if the Bill of Sale is in the UK then it is HMRC.

Those are the general principles - you can get further explanation from the RYA website on VAT and the detailed rules are in HMRC VAT Notice no8.

You need to collect every single piece of evidence of the history of the boat to establish when (and where) it entered the EU and who was responsible for importing the boat. Hopefully it will be prior to 1998 so that you don't have to worry about meeting the RCD. Ideally this should all have been done before you bought the boat, but you are stuck with it now and have to deal with the consequences (if there are any). What they are will depend on the detail of the documnents you have. Ideally you want to find the person who was responsible for paying the VAT and get the receipt. In any case you will have a claim against the person you bought the boat from if he has signed that the boat is free of any claims (and turns out not to be) - although pursuing the claim may not be so easy.

At some point, when you have all the documents together you will probably need to take legal advice, so good idea to join the RYA so that you get a chance for some free advice - not suggesting they will be able to immediately solve any problem, but it is a good place to start.

Hope this helps.
 
Tranona said:
You need to collect every single piece of evidence of the history of the boat to establish when (and where) it entered the EU and who was responsible for importing the boat. Hopefully it will be prior to 1998 so that you don't have to worry about meeting the RCD.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I think I can reassure you about the RCD angle. Unlike VAT no liability travels with the boat. The responsibility for RCD compliance lies with the person (business) who first placed the boat on the market in the EU. If you bought her in Gosport I guess someone else imported her and because they didn't get post-build compliance before selling her they would have been liable to action from the enforcing agency - in the UK this is Trading Standards. However, Trading Standards must bring a prosecution within one year of the 'placing on the market'. So I wouldn't worry, you didn't break any rules and in any case it's too late to do anything about it.

If you can dredge up some evidence that she was in use in the EU or a EU territory pre-1998 she's exempt anyway.
 
concentrik said:
However, Trading Standards must bring a prosecution within one year of the 'placing on the market'. So I wouldn't worry, you didn't break any rules and in any case it's too late to do anything about it.

If you can dredge up some evidence that she was in use in the EU or a EU territory pre-1998 she's exempt anyway.
Click to expand...

Do you have a reference for that? Often heard it said, but never with reference to the law that covers it.
 
concentrik said:
However, Trading Standards must bring a prosecution within one year of the 'placing on the market'. So I wouldn't worry, you didn't break any rules and in any case it's too late to do anything about it.

If you can dredge up some evidence that she was in use in the EU or a EU territory pre-1998 she's exempt anyway.
Click to expand...

Tranona said:
Do you have a reference for that? Often heard it said, but never with reference to the law that covers it.
Click to expand...

concentrik said:
PM sent
Click to expand...

I'm sure other people (me included) would be interested in your answer too, so could you provide your reference publicly?
 
SailorBill said:
I'm sure other people (me included) would be interested in your answer too, so could you provide your reference publicly?
Click to expand...

I have correspondence from Trading Standards which confirms this but the text contains a lot of personal details which I'd prefer not to make public. I'm happy to PM it as I have to Tranona. I'll dig out the legislation as well as there still seems to be interest. In the meantime this document from Nick Riordens parish(Nick is an acknowledged RCD guru), Hants CC:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/46557448/tradingstandards-yacht.pdf

says this on P 4:

Sanctions
For an offence under the RCD, the person responsible for first placing the craft on the market or taking it into service the maximum penalty for breaching the RCD is 3 months imprisonment or a £5000 fine. This applies equally to private individuals and those in business. Although a prosecution must be brought with one year from the date of the offence there are other processes which can be invoked on the discovery of a non-compliant or falsely CE marked craft.

For some offences under the GPSD the penalties can be up to a £20,000 fine and up to 12 months.


The processes which can be invoked concern deliberate or negligent actions by the importer and TS may take unilateral action against them. In the case of the OP TS would want his (the OP's) complaint before taking action.

I think this needs to be kept in perspective. The directive was intended to harmonise standards between EU boat mfrs. It's probably useful in controlling commercial US imports of used boats to the UK. But I wouldn't have thought the OP is likely to attract any attention and become subject to TS action under the GPSD.
 
OK, found it (the relevant legislation) - it says:


21Commencement of proceedings

In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, a magistrates' court may try an information (in the case of England and Wales) or a complaint (in the case of Northern Ireland) in respect of an offence committed under regulation 17 or section 12 of the 1987 Act in relation to a contravention of these Regulations if (in the case of England and Wales) the information is laid or (in the case of Northern Ireland) the complaint is made within twelve months from the time when the offence is committed, and in Scotland summary proceedings for such an offence may be begun at any time within twelve months from the time when the offence is committed.


Find the whole thing here at s.21:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/1464/contents/made

it's a gripping read..... z z z zzzzz
 
Thanks for that. From the OPs point of view lack of a CE mark might also imply that duty and VAT hasve not been paid either. We also don't know where the boat came into the EU - we are just making an assumption it is the UK.

That is why it is important to trace the detailed history. VAT would be liable at the rate and the valuation at the time and place of first entry. In theory if VAT has not been paid and it was due in another state, HMRC would not be able to accept a payment to remove that liability as no chargeable event has taken place within its jurisdiction.
 
In a similar case we brought a boat from the USA to Europe and sailed with it in french waters without having declared it in Germany. French customs confiscated the boat, I had to pay 3.000 Euro fine and to pay a caution of 10.000 to get the boat free for further sailing to Germany. Here the customs´ decision was that the boat was free of taxes and duties because we lived for some years in the USA and so the boat was "moving goods". With this documents we travelled back (by car) to France but they would not pay the money back. Tried German consul, tried two french lawyers, no help, they had no idea what to do.

I found after 14 months SOLVIT in the internet. These is the authority for citizens in the EU, having problems with authorities of other EU nations. Their service is free and fast. I send them an email, within 8 days they asked for the documents, within 12 weeks I got the decision made between the office in Berlin and France. The Frenchies had to pay my money back and I got my money.

Just found UK SOLVIT that should be your partner to get the case transferred to England.

Hope it may help you

Klaus SY Annabell
 
Arigatou said:
Sorry, should have explained a little better in my thread. We bought the boat in Gosport and VAT has already been paid on it. We are british although brought up in S Africa. The only thing we dont have proof of is that VAT was already paid.
Click to expand...

When was the VAT paid ? In UK law you are only required to retain tax documentation for 6 years under normal circumstances. Your proof that you don't owe VAT is the bill of sale from a private vendor which states the vendor was in fact a private individual and not a VAT registered business.

Hth,

Boo2
 
Personally I think French customs should seize the boat and all it's contents and deport the whole family, after fining them heavily and guillotining the skipper as an example.

This will have benefits as it will save them walking down the pontoon and drinking all our falling down juice as they did last night. It may even save me having to take the lightly boiled aspirin I had to have for breakfast this morning.
They cannot drink any more with out their heads connected :D:D
 
I hope they see their situation with the same sense of humour!

My fear would be that the French would see them as trying to import the boat into the EU unless they have evidence that the boat has already been imported! If it was legally imported then there will be paperwork to prove it - not just VAT. Although the legal requirement as Boo2 points out is only 6 years in reality as it is a permanent requirement to keep it. There would also have been a receipt for the customs duty, and if post 1998 of the CE mark or an exemption. There is no alternative record kept of these three, so in their absence the presumption has to be that the boat is in the EU illegally.

The risk is that although the current owners probably have not committed any offence, the liability for tax attaches to the boat.
 
The French custom seem to pop down every Thursday or Friday and check only foreign registered boats. We expect to be checked next week.
The only thing they really want to see is the VAT certificate or a means of showing VAT has been paid.
Our boat was built pre 1998 and I have the original bill of sale with the VAT shown on it as being paid. I also have a certificate witnessed by a solicitor to say there is no monies outstanding on the boat.
Hopefully this will be sufficient proof.
Why can there not be a small card similar to the SSR which can be issued at the time of paying VAT we could show rather than different bits of paper.
 
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