Varnish - one part or two?

[YachtAllegro]

Hi

We stripped Allegro's cockpit coamings back to bare wood a season ago to experiment with Deks Olje as a wood treatment. I've not been wildly impressed and am planning to revarnish them.

Browsing different varnishes in the chandlers this morning I was struck by the claims for durability of two part varnish. I've no experience of using two part paints or varnishes. As someone of fairly average painting ability, if I go down the two part route am I likely to be impressed by the quality of the finish or horrified at the complexity of the process? Anyone got any tips to share?

Cheers
Patrick

 

[PhillM]

Patrick, I dont think that 2 part are that complex to use but there are differences that you need to bear in mind.

One part varnish has more flexability and is easier to repair. \ touch up.

Two part is hard and will crack if the underlying wood moves. It has to be removed and replaced rather then repaired.

You can put one part varnish over 2 part varnish but not the other way round.

Your cockpit is going to get wear and tear so you want to be able to touch it up easily. Also, it will get weight on / in it and there is going to be movement. For these reasons I'd use one part.

Have in fact just done the same job on my MAB which had a complete cockpit rebuild over the winter. I have used Epifines starting with a 25% then 50/50 then two coats of full. We stopped there to ensure that all layers had really hardned and plan to put another 2 coats of full on in June or July.

 

[Evadne]

I have done a similar job this spring, based on the partial success I had with 2 part when I made new cockpit locker lids about 15 years ago. The locker lids were made at home and coated with several coats of 2-part varnish. This lasted well but eventually dulled, then cracked one year and let the water in.

This time I put two coats of 2-part followed by as many coats of 1-part (Epiphanes woodfinish) as I could, I think I managed 4 before the weather intervened. This allows a light rub down and one or two coats of varnish next spring to keep up the gloss, while protecting the harder 2-part varnish.

 

[epervier]

Epifanes woodfinish gloss, it ain't cheap, but is simple enough for a motorboater to use

 

[Salty John]

You could try using varnish over epoxy. It's a long time since I used this system and then it was in the USA, so I don't know how costly it is, but here's some information:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/varnish-over-epoxy/

I've had really good results with this method.

 

[RFML]

Full coat of epoxy, then whatever varnish you wish (as long as it has UV filters in it). Makes it less prone to absorb water and crack.


Granted, that's a bit more complex.

Although two part is usually a bit less flexible, I don't see a problem with it. In fact, I have two part on my oars on my coastal rowing boat (over carbon/epoxy) and also on my wooden oars for my Adirondack guide boat. Both sets of oars flex.

 

[RFML]

You could try using varnish over epoxy. It's a long time since I used this system and then it was in the USA, so I don't know how costly it is, but here's some information:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/varnish-over-epoxy/

I've had really good results with this method.

Oh, I didn't see this post. Yes, I've had good experiences with that system too. You don't need to use West System epoxy, any brand will do (I know you know, but just for clarity).

 

[michael_w]

Another vote for Epifanes. I'ts the only stuff that stays attached in the tropics. For best results, thin with proper turpentine, not white spirit.

 

[jwilson]

Hi

We stripped Allegro's cockpit coamings back to bare wood a season ago to experiment with Deks Olje as a wood treatment. I've not been wildly impressed and am planning to revarnish them.

Browsing different varnishes in the chandlers this morning I was struck by the claims for durability of two part varnish. I've no experience of using two part paints or varnishes. As someone of fairly average painting ability, if I go down the two part route am I likely to be impressed by the quality of the finish or horrified at the complexity of the process? Anyone got any tips to share?

Cheers
Patrick

Two-pack is brilliant until you have to re-do it, and you will eventually. Then some will flake off easily and other bits will still be rock-hard and stuck fast, and very hard work indeed to shift. I prefer single-pack yacht varnish: it may not last as long but it is so much easier to get off and redo with either heat and scraper, or stripper.

 

[YachtAllegro]

That's very helpful. I had wondered about the ease of removal when the time came, and this would seem to confirm my doubts. I also take the point about wood flexing and cracking it. Conventional varnish it is, then. Schooner Gold sounds good on the tin and is in stock locally, so unless there are strong reasons for choosing anything different I guess that's what I'll go for.

Cheers
Patrick

 

[Tranona]

Far and away the best finish for this type of use is a breathable woodstain such as Sikkens Novatec/Top or a single pot of similar type such as International's new Woodskin. Easy to apply, long lasting, easy to touch up and low cost. Only drawback is finish is not high gloss.

 

[Carib]

Far and away the best finish for this type of use is a breathable woodstain such as Sikkens Novatec/Top or a single pot of similar type such as International's new Woodskin. Easy to apply, long lasting, easy to touch up and low cost. Only drawback is finish is not high gloss.

I've just done my grab rails and rubbing strake with Woodskin. It's a reformulated Sikkens Cetol I think. I was pleasantly surprised by how varnish-like the finish is, and goes on like a dream. It does rub off fairly easily where the fender ropes go, but easy to touch up. Definitely recommended.

 

[PhillM]

I've just done my grab rails and rubbing strake with Woodskin. It's a reformulated Sikkens Cetol I think. I was pleasantly surprised by how varnish-like the finish is, and goes on like a dream. It does rub off fairly easily where the fender ropes go, but easy to touch up. Definitely recommended.

Hmm this is what the previous owner had used. I'm sure that if kept up its fine by he didn't and the whole cockpit warped then rotted in 2 seasons. I gave up trying to repair and had the whole thing stripped out and rebuilt at a cost of a few £k

 

[Carib]

Hmm this is what the previous owner had used. I'm sure that if kept up its fine by he didn't and the whole cockpit warped then rotted in 2 seasons. I gave up trying to repair and had the whole thing stripped out and rebuilt at a cost of a few £k

Ouch... I haven't used it on anything which would rot, just teak - don't know if it's any good for wood which really has to be protected!

 

[westernman]

Check out Le Tonkinois. This is a real varnish, goes on easily and can be easily touched up. It is not a stain - so the wood retains all its natural beauty. I am not a varnish expert and have little patience for sanding and applying large numbers of coats - but this stuff makes me look like a pro.

http://www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk/VarFAQ.html

 

[Kukri]

Epifanes, original formula not the clever stuff, or Le Tonkinois. Thinned with genuine turpentine, No others are worth consideration.

 

[lw395]

Only wooden boat I have at the moment is a racing dinghy varnished with Perfection 2 pack.
Very hard wearing.
Good UV resistance.
No use where the wood is getting water in from behind etc.

I've had this boat 2 1/2 years now with only minor touching up, and she has done some hard racing in that time. She's 20 years old, but built to a very high standard.
She does get garaged in the winter.

This varnish is also what we use to protect carbon masts from UV.

It's actually quite easy for touching up, you mix a tiny amount using syringes to measure it. It's hard enough to go sailing next morning.

Horses for courses.

 

[hannahman]

Le Tonkinois also gets my vote. Although I'm a recent convert, so far I'm really pleased with it. It's holding up well, and the boat looks lovely with it.