Valuing an older boat

superheat6k

superheat6k

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Had a thorough look over the Corvette 32 I fancy today, as with a fair wind might be better placed to make an offer soon.

So is this a fair method of establishing a realistic value ...

Max possible Price e.g. £65,000 (i.e. Max possible for a boat of this Make, Model and Age and in close to pristine condition)

Less Cost: Professional repairs e.g. £23 - 26,000 (I have drawn what I feel is a fair list and have likely made significant omissions)

Less cost of inventory e.g. £10 - 12,000 (including materials for the refurb that would not be contracted, and some nav gear).

Net Valuation £27 - 32,000


Assuming the above calculation is reasonably based and sensible, how then do I 'explain' this to a vendor who has been flying his kite for at least 3 years whilst his boat has sadly festered whilst neglected. I doubt this boat has been to sea in proper use for at least 3 years.

Or do I put my sensible head on and look elsewhere, or take a cruise instead !
 
Its tricky, there's a boat I'd buy for sub £10k, its on an 30k, I tired to explain to the broker, but now its been out in the weather getting worse for another winter.

What engine does the corvette have?
 
burgundyben said:
Its tricky, there's a boat I'd buy for sub £10k, its on an 30k, I tired to explain to the broker, but now its been out in the weather getting worse for another winter.

What engine does the corvette have?
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4 Cylinder Thornycroft / Cummins reported to be 150 HP. Not that familiar (yet !!!).

These have some horrific looking rusted parts obvious, are dirty, and there is coolant showing to the port side of the bilge. The stbd engine looked like it had little if any glycol in. Slight smell, but no colour.

In my assessment I have allowed £3,000 for professional attention, including parts. If Cummins charge anything like VP then this could be easily spent.

I would expect to do most of the work myself, but feel for a costing that the valuation the assessment should reflect fair costs including the time of professionals. I have allowed a further £3,000 for the cutlass bearings and shaft seals, and having just done them on my Turbo 36 I know this is a conservative estimate assuming again it is done by a paid engineer.

The broker in this case is the one selling OB, so I do have his attention as he knows I will be cash ready, hopefully (and subject to survey - I hate this time waiting for the grim reaper to condemn my current pride and joy !) quite soon.

I also know of another similar vintage Corvette 32 bought last Autumn by another forumite sub £30k - the broker didn't, despite his private (to brokers) sales price database. I expect the broker who sold the Corvette here was too embarrassed to report it, as when I saw it in 2011 it was asking £70 k.
 
I think somehow you need to build up a rapport certainly with the broker and preferably the owner. Take him out to dinner, explain all the faults to him, tell him you'll love and restore the boat, and point out that without your intervention the boat will decline further.

Good luck!
 
burgundyben said:
Its tricky, there's a boat I'd buy for sub £10k, its on an 30k, I tired to explain to the broker, but now its been out in the weather getting worse for another winter.

What engine does the corvette have?
Click to expand...

Sorry bout the thread drift but if you are still looking,Eun Mara,the swordsman on The Thames,is now for sale after not being for sale for years,according to the boatyard.
 
How long has this corvette been for sale?

I'm sure a really low, in the balls offer, maybe accepted after the boats been for sale for 2 years, but if it's new to market you will need to do some educating to the seller, and he may listen, but if it's early days probably he will just be happy to wait hoping for someone to pitch up who is not so knowledgable!
 
Rational argument always goes a long way and if combined with a willingness to compromise might lead to the right result. It appears that you have some wriggle room on your estimates as you can do much of the work yourself so a low but fair offer together with an explanation and a preparedness to negotiate may be more likely to succeed.

However if the seller is delusional (which many can be in my experience) then there isn't much you can do :)
 
I indeed bought a Corvette 32 last October as a project for sub £30k. Whilst the previous owner was not happy with the price he finally realised that with the boat's condition suffering the offer was realistic. I too done some rough refurb costings, work completed to date include:

- engines overhauled (professionally)
- all through hull fittings replaced
- new shafts, bearings etc together with drip less seals
- all windows removed and resealed
- props balanced

Currently able to use the boat on a day to day basis whilst internal refurbing goes on, I don't think costs will be recovered in the future value of the boat, but it's an enjoyable challenge completing the various works.

Superheat, you are more than welcome to come and have a look at the progress being made, boat is still near Ipswich.
 
steved said:
I indeed bought a Corvette 32 last October as a project for sub £30k. Whilst the previous owner was not happy with the price he finally realised that with the boat's condition suffering the offer was realistic. I too done some rough refurb costings, work completed to date include:

- engines overhauled (professionally)
- all through hull fittings replaced
- new shafts, bearings etc together with drip less seals
- all windows removed and resealed
- props balanced

Currently able to use the boat on a day to day basis whilst internal refurbing goes on, I don't think costs will be recovered in the future value of the boat, but it's an enjoyable challenge completing the various works.

Superheat, you are more than welcome to come and have a look at the progress being made, boat is still near Ipswich.
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Thank you for kind offer to view your boat, I may well take you up on the invite.

Indeed your purchase and my prior knowledge the your boat had languished for several years in the vain hope of a buyer was one I explained to the broker yesterday, and your's when I saw it was in far better aestethic condition, and the decks had already been done.

Did you remove the engines for the overhaul, or was it done in situ, in which case can I ask how you gain sensible access to the outer sides and gearbox end of the engines ?
 
superheat6k said:
Thank you for kind offer to view your boat, I may well take you up on the invite.

Indeed your purchase and my prior knowledge the your boat had languished for several years in the vain hope of a buyer was one I explained to the broker yesterday, and your's when I saw it was in far better aestethic condition, and the decks had already been done.

Did you remove the engines for the overhaul, or was it done in situ, in which case can I ask how you gain sensible access to the outer sides and gearbox end of the engines ?
Click to expand...

The engines were overhauled in situ, in fact there is a reasonable amount of room around the outer sides of the engines. Although the marine engineer was of quite slight build and seemed to be able to get into positions that I could only dream of! The main work completed was heat exchangers off and cleaned / painted, fuel pumps and injectors overhauled, new flexible couplings and various leaky bits sorted, together with the full servicing items.
 
superheat6k said:
4 Cylinder Thornycroft / Cummins reported to be 150 HP. Not that familiar (yet !!!).

These have some horrific looking rusted parts obvious, are dirty, and there is coolant showing to the port side of the bilge. The stbd engine looked like it had little if any glycol in. Slight smell, but no colour.

In my assessment I have allowed £3,000 for professional attention, including parts. If Cummins charge anything like VP then this could be easily spent.

I would expect to do most of the work myself, but feel for a costing that the valuation the assessment should reflect fair costs including the time of professionals. I have allowed a further £3,000 for the cutlass bearings and shaft seals, and having just done them on my Turbo 36 I know this is a conservative estimate assuming again it is done by a paid engineer.

The broker in this case is the one selling OB, so I do have his attention as he knows I will be cash ready, hopefully (and subject to survey - I hate this time waiting for the grim reaper to condemn my current pride and joy !) quite soon.

I also know of another similar vintage Corvette 32 bought last Autumn by another forumite sub £30k - the broker didn't, despite his private (to brokers) sales price database. I expect the broker who sold the Corvette here was too embarrassed to report it, as when I saw it in 2011 it was asking £70 k.
Click to expand...

Thornycroft T238 was their own marinisation of the Cummins 4B which is still in production little changed as a ReCon unit 28 years later. Gutsy little motor producing 150 hp with straight turbocharging, no charge air cooler.

When I say little changed the Thornycroft has a nice Bowman heat exchanger and likely still the original Jabsco raw water pump. Jabsco pump is no longer available as complete unit however all repair parts and impeller are.

Pitfalls........The de-airation pipework on the Thornycroft version was a bit dubious and could lead air lock when coolant changed. In addition being a pre 1991 engine coolant flow to the exhaust manifold is from the back of the cylinder head, later modified to come from the back of the block, with this arrangement any failure of raw water pump causes temperature to rise very quickly in the exhaust manifold with potential for cracking.

With the above upgrades engines should re-commission well within your budget.

Many Corvette 32's were fitted with Cummins 6B 210's which was a good match, I would question how well suited a pair of 150 hp engines are in this boat, no doubt others will say.
 
superheat6k said:
Assuming the above calculation is reasonably based and sensible, how then do I 'explain' this to a vendor who has been flying his kite for at least 3 years whilst his boat has sadly festered whilst neglected. I doubt this boat has been to sea in proper use for at least 3 years.
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Well there's no harm in trying but seeing as the vendor has had his boat on the market for 3yrs, he doesn't sound like the kind of fellow who's going to be persuaded to compromise. Try it and then walk away if he doesn't bite. Even if your calculations are correct for the work you know about, you're bound to find something else which needs work and which you haven't taken account of in your cost calculations so you're likely never to see your money back on this boat, the only question is by how much
 
Deleted User said:
Well there's no harm in trying but seeing as the vendor has had his boat on the market for 3yrs, he doesn't sound like the kind of fellow who's going to be persuaded to compromise. Try it and then walk away if he doesn't bite. Even if your calculations are correct for the work you know about, you're bound to find something else which needs work and which you haven't taken account of in your cost calculations so you're likely never to see your money back on this boat, the only question is by how much
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But then if any of us were sensible as far as economics are concerned we would never buy a boat ! The three F's rule I think - better off rented. Besides if we don't spend it the kids would only waste it on our behalf, eh.
 
superheat6k said:
But then if any of us were sensible as far as economics are concerned we would never buy a boat ! The three F's rule I think - better off rented. Besides if we don't spend it the kids would only waste it on our behalf, eh.
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Thats true. I keep telling the SWMBO I'd only waste our money on fast cars or something equally stupid. At least we can involve our family in our obsession!
 
superheat6k said:
But then if any of us were sensible as far as economics are concerned we would never buy a boat ! The three F's rule I think - better off rented. Besides if we don't spend it the kids would only waste it on our behalf, eh.
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I don't agree, we spend £5/6k on running the boat and get 40 nights on board per year, you can't rent one for that.
 
Owner is probably looking at self same costs to get the boat into shape plus hold costs for it sitting there gently rotting away.

There's one way to find out whether the value perceived by the prospective buyer matches that of the would be seller...
 
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