Uv+Salt+Med+Varnished Wooden Boat=?

Seah0rse

Seah0rse

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I am keen to sail to warmer climes and leave my boat there as a 'second home' especially with winter approaching, but hear of horror stories of the damage caused by the above combination. On the other hand I hear of immaculate Italian varnished boats and see pictures of wooden boats in the Caribbean.

Before I sail all that way and find out for myself (next year) I would appreciate the benefit of the Forums wisdom/experience/advice
 
The immaculate brightwork you may see in photographs is usually covered by bespoke canvaswork for 90% of the time.

Paid hands spend weeks and weeks and weeks varnishing - I have witnessed this in Palma.

I too, am thinking of bringing my wooden boat South. However, I have decided to restrict myself to the Algarve where the heat of the summer is tempered by the fresh Nortada.

To minimise the weather effects I believe it is best to:

1. Keep the boat afloat for the majority of the year - lifting out for a few days in the early spring for paint and antifoul.

2. Keep my present varnish regime of Deks D1/D2 as D2 can be applied without preparation and many coats may be built up.

3. Keep as much as possible of the boat covered with a lightweight sun awning.

4. Chuck copious bucketfulls of seawater over the decks at sundown.

5. Keep a little bit of seawater in the bilge.

6. When away, try to negotiate with the office the shadiest part of the marina or park on the North side of a dirty great Stinkpot!

Just my thoughts.
 
Seah0rse said:
I am keen to sail to warmer climes and leave my boat there as a 'second home' especially with winter approaching, but hear of horror stories of the damage caused by the above combination. On the other hand I hear of immaculate Italian varnished boats and see pictures of wooden boats in the Caribbean.

Before I sail all that way and find out for myself (next year) I would appreciate the benefit of the Forums wisdom/experience/advice
Click to expand...

Suggest you search the back numbers of both Classic Boat and PBO for a series of articles by Richard Hare who keeps his Golden Hind in the Med.

Unless you can support the regime used by the "classic" yacht people then follow his advice and use primarily Sikkens Novatec/Novatop finishes if you want any kind of durability. Any "varnish" will last only months (including Deks Olje as suggested by chinita) because the combination of heat and UV will break the film - and once it is broken it falls off. Life can be extended significantly by covering everything up, but that is a lot of hassle unless the boat is unattended for long periods between use.
 
I agree with Tranona.

I used to keep a 46ft ketch in Spain. One spring I varnished with 13 coats of International Schooner beginning with 50/50 and working up to 100%, always sanding between coats.

It lasted 9 months.

My experience with Deks is that, when in the mood, I can slap on another coat with minimal prep. It stores well in the can, never skins over and never seems to run even on vertical surfaces. Downside is that it is a rather 'soft' varnish even when allowed to harden.

I know Tranona is not a big fan of Deks but each to his own and it works for me!
 
Blugger

Oh bullocks! I had hoped that Dec’s was the answer to my varnish woes having just switched to it a few weeks ago having tried a few different types over the last few years. ‘Do you know how to apply this?’ the helpful Swindlery sales person [oxymoron?] asked. My heart filed with joy as I saw the rain bead up the next day having applied six ish coats of D1 wet on wet the day or so ago. So, it seems that canvass is the only answer or white paint on top. What a disappointment. Perhaps I'll I stick to the Solent then.

Thanks for your responses. Much appreciated.
 
Hands up, I am a professional classic yacht varnisher.
My advice is to look at this problem over a longer time span.
If you start from bare wood and do it right first time then
the cost over a 5 year period will possibly be less
than screwing it up with Deksolje.
4 coats of clear epoxy primer ( Wood Impreg 120)
followed by 5 coats of a good 2 part polyurethane varnish
such as Seatop PU360UVR will give you a surface that
looks like you put 20 coats of Epifanes on it.
Within time limits you do not have to sand between coats
but I suggest P220 every second coat to keep it flat.
If it's worth doing then do it right!
Cheers,
Chris
P.S. I have no financial gain from the products mentioned.
 
I have been 'screwing it up' with Deks Olje for about fifteen years now.

But then, I still find sufficient time to sail on a boat which draws admiration despite being 'screwed up'.
 
Every one to their own.
As someone who does this work full-time, not just when
I feel like it, I would never use Deks Olje.
If the owner insisted then I would decline the job.
My reputation is too important.
I suspect that most fellow professionals would feel the same.
Indeed it seems that quite a few "amateurs" agree.
Cheers,
Chris
 
there is no easy way with varnish.a boat needs to be maintained at all times to look good.although the med isnt as hot this time of year(obviousley!)
i find the 2pack stuff just a hassle.go with the epifhanes wood-finish for build up coats and then beginning of nxt season 'spruce' her up with 2 coats of clear(epiphanes).
if she's gonna get used alot you'll probably have to apply a couple of coats throughout the year.covering the boat is also an expensive alternative!
 
xtiffer said:
Every one to their own.
As someone who does this work full-time, not just when
I feel like it, I would never use Deks Olje.
If the owner insisted then I would decline the job.
My reputation is too important.
I suspect that most fellow professionals would feel the same.
Indeed it seems that quite a few "amateurs" agree.
Cheers,
Chris
Click to expand...

This "amatuer" does agree, after using epifanes and a few other products over ten years in the meddy, I have been converted to impreg 120 and uv 360, marvellous stuff, my handrails look like glass, easy to use and good stuff. Just now trying to order 4 liters of each to continue changing all my "varnish" to this system, will need a lot more than 4 liters, but its a start!
I tried deks, but wont again. Tried coelans also great stuff, my masts are still coated in it. But the gloss and finish of the sicomin products is just wonderful.
People who do their varnish, then leave it are asking for more work, when I uised epifanes, I put at least three more coats on a a year, then it lasts.
 
ccscott49 said:
This "amatuer" does agree, after using epifanes and a few other products over ten years in the meddy, I have been converted to impreg 120 and uv 360, marvellous stuff, my handrails look like glass, easy to use and good stuff. Just now trying to order 4 liters of each to continue changing all my "varnish" to this system, will need a lot more than 4 liters, but its a start!
I tried deks, but wont again. Tried coelans also great stuff, my masts are still coated in it. But the gloss and finish of the sicomin products is just wonderful.
People who do their varnish, then leave it are asking for more work, when I uised epifanes, I put at least three more coats on a a year, then it lasts.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear it worked for you (Impreg & PU360),
I am not using it at the moment as my current clients are still happy with Epifanes and the regime doesn't need me to go back to bare wood yet.
However I have told these owners of the way to go when this happens and they seem confident in my advice.
If only they could get UV protection into Wood Impreg 120 I would be a very happy man , although somewhat less busy :(
Cheers,
Chris
 
xtiffer said:
Glad to hear it worked for you (Impreg & PU360),
I am not using it at the moment as my current clients are still happy with Epifanes and the regime doesn't need me to go back to bare wood yet.
However I have told these owners of the way to go when this happens and they seem confident in my advice.
If only they could get UV protection into Wood Impreg 120 I would be a very happy man , although somewhat less busy :(
Cheers,
Chris
Click to expand...

I am only doing the varnish work that needs stripping back myself, the cabin sides mainly, the wheelhouse and aft are still fine with epifanes, not stripping off good varnish! A impreg 120 with UV, thats almost the holy grail!

By the way, do you use the thinners atall? Also how difficult would it be to get the stuff via you to greece, I get no answer from Map Yachting in France.
 
ccscott49 said:
I am only doing the varnish work that needs stripping back myself, the cabin sides mainly, the wheelhouse and aft are still fine with epifanes, not stripping off good varnish! A impreg 120 with UV, thats almost the holy grail!

By the way, do you use the thinners atall? Also how difficult would it be to get the stuff via you to greece, I get no answer from Map Yachting in France.
Click to expand...

I presume you mean thinners for the PU360 ?
Be careful not to use the spray thinner; they have a special brush thinner but I hardly used it at all. I just choose the right time of day
( temp/humidity) and found it still flows beautifully.
An email to: jimmy.renaut@sicomin.com might help you out.
My supplier here has been taken over by somebody else
and my last chat with them was not encouraging. They said it would be a month before they had any more Impreg in stock.
I will be checking again this week as an old client has just returned
for the winter and needs recoating with PU360.
Cheers,
Chris
P.S. For anybody wanting product info try:
http://www.mcmc-uk.com/paints/map-paint-products.html
 
I've got a refurb job to complete this winter on our timberwork and having started to apply 10 coats of Epiphanes to some parts, then found this thread. Sods law eh!
Have now just placed an order for 1.5 litres of brushing PU360 and 4 litres of Impreg 120. No stock of the latter as of today, so it will take 3 weeks to arrive from France.
FWIW I prefer using boats rather than varnishing them, and am no expert. But once I've had the chance to use the products I'll give some feedback on what the differences look like - from a 'real beginners' point of view.
Cheers
JOHN
 
I've started so I'll finish

Swagman said:
But once I've had the chance to use the products I'll give some feedback on what the differences look like - from a 'real beginners' point of view.
Click to expand...

That would be much appreciated John.

I've tried Epi, Epi.... Le Tonk and now Dec's (why are they all unpronounceable?)

I like Dec's (at the moment) coz here in the Uk you can put on the required quantity of the No1 wet on wet in one day and if it rains the next day, it does not matter. The No2 can go on later in better weather if you want to have a gloss finish. So, I have just started with the No1 and think I will carry on for the time being.

However, I can imagine I might need some weapons grade varnish if I find myself further south to combat the UV and would be very interested in how you get on. From what I have read, it seems temperature and humidity are important variables when applying it so I think I will need to be further south before trying the PU 360 etc.

Good luck. I hope it works for you.
 
Seah0rse said:
From what I have read, it seems temperature and humidity are important variables when applying it so I think I will need to be further south before trying the PU 360 etc.
Click to expand...

Yes, temp & humidity critical but more so at the high end here in Turkey in the summer with 40C + and 90% humidity!
Moderate conditions in the UK should be less of a problem other than rain and freezing conditions which you would stay at home for anyway.
Check the data sheets for the info however, it is vital to stay within their limits.
Also make sure your bare wood has a moisture reading of less than 12%.
Lots to consider but the effort will be worthwhile in the years to come.
Cheers,
Chris
 
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