Using hydrochloric acid in the toilets

tudorsailor

tudorsailor

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OK so found agua fuerte (fire water) or hydrochloric acid from Spanish chandlery. No idea of its strength. Left a pump out cap in it for 5 minutes and small amount of crud completely gone. Removed non-return valve from loo which had been in place since May so had a 1mm coating of calcification on plastic. Soaked in the neat solution for 30 minutes to get crud off

Not sure I want to put the neat stuff in the toilet in case it dissolves the toilet. So how dilute should it be?

Not sure how long to leave in the pipe going to the holding tank that has 10 years of calcification

Any practical experience would be good

Thanks

TudorSailor
 
Well the most basic, traditional and fulfilling test on determining the strength of an acid is called the skin reflect test.

Simply drop a ten molar solution of the acid onto your hand, if you can see your bone within 5 seconds its probably a strong acid.

A mild pain threshold is required for this test, buts it by far the most scientific. :rolleyes:


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Do not confuse the term acid strength with pH. The strength of an acid has to do with the percentage of the initial number of acid molecules that are ionized. If a higher percentage of the original acid molecules are ionized, and therefore, donated as hydrated protons (hydronium ions) then the acid will be stonger.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_find_the_strength_of_acid#ixzz1evP1XZio

A more realistic or practical (other than a chemistry lab) approach would be to use a hydrometer.
 
tudorsailor said:
OK so found agua fuerte (fire water) or hydrochloric acid from Spanish chandlery. No idea of its strength. Left a pump out cap in it for 5 minutes and small amount of crud completely gone. Removed non-return valve from loo which had been in place since May so had a 1mm coating of calcification on plastic. Soaked in the neat solution for 30 minutes to get crud off

Not sure I want to put the neat stuff in the toilet in case it dissolves the toilet. So how dilute should it be?

Not sure how long to leave in the pipe going to the holding tank that has 10 years of calcification

Any practical experience would be good

Thanks

TudorSailor
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it will have already been diluted down i would be surprised if its more than 20% strength
 
I've cleaned heat exchangers in a bucket of that stuff...It's strong! I put the heat exchanger core in and it looked like a deep fat fryer boiling away for a while. Removed heat exchanger core and marvel at how clean and shiny it has beome in a short space of time. Be VERY careful what you use it for.
 
sailorman said:
it will have already been diluted down i would be surprised if its more than 20% strength
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Probably more like 10% but it doesn't really matter as it will quickly be buffered by the calcium. I'd still dilute it 1:1 to get enough volume.

The product of this reaction occurs naturally in seawater (unlike with acetic acid), so no environmental twaddle to consider.
 
Rum_Pirate said:
Well the most basic, traditional and fulfilling test on determining the strength of an acid is called the skin reflect test.

Simply drop a ten molar solution of the acid onto your hand, if you can see your bone within 5 seconds its probably a strong acid.

A mild pain threshold is required for this test, buts it by far the most scientific. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

How can this be scientific? As a Hand Surgeon I can assure you that not only is the skin and subcutaneous tissue very different on the back of the hand from the palm, but hands vary from the skin calloused skin of your manual worker compared to the manicured hands of the banker. So without establishing a "Standard Hand" I cannot use this measurement

TS
 
Two variables strength and time. If you soak in a dilute solution overnight it, will have the same effect as concentrated over a few minutes.
Further is you raise the temperature then the system will react more quickly.
There are many other descaling agents, one of which is citric acid which is food grade and can be used in emergency as a substitute for lemon in your G&T .
Most acids will not affect plastic, rubber or porcelain, even in concentrated form. Diluted, absolutely no problem
 
There have been quite a few threads about this in the past. We regularly pour this stuff neat (Agua Fuerte, about 30% by volume) into our Lavac, leave it for half an hour, then pump it slowly through the rest of the pipework. Been doing this for years with no problems.

It is also nothing short of magical for removing propeller fouling and cleaning up Blakes seacocks. We are always cautious enough to rinse off thoroughly when done. No sign of any damage to any of the bronze or from splashes to the grp around the prop.

Hydrochloric Acid is often sold in the UK as brick cleaner, or in our local hardware store as Spirits of Salt.

I would be interested to hear of any contrary experiences.
 
If you want something to clean your thunderbox with why not go to the chandler and buy something made for the job instead of using something which might play havoc with the works?
 
Galago said:
If you want something to clean your thunderbox with why not go to the chandler and buy something made for the job instead of using something which might play havoc with the works?
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Well it might play havoc with the works, but nobody, yet, has come on here to say that it DOES play havoc with the works. I have never seen anything on a chandler's shelf which claims to remove calcified deposits from heads plumbing. If there is such a product, I would like to see the list of ingredients. Very mild acids like vinegar are practically useless for this purpose.

The other approach is to dismantle everything, beat the daylight out of the pipework on the pontoon and open up the pumps to chisel away at the stuff.

No thanks. My solution works for me and is proven by experience, not theories about what may or may not play havoc with the works.
 
Galago said:
If you want something to clean your thunderbox with why not go to the chandler and buy something made for the job instead of using something which might play havoc with the works?
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Agree with JayBee.

We've been using it for years and its very cheap - 10% dilution - it will always be marked on the bottle somewhere. We put down one litre a month - three pumps and leave for half an hour - then another three pumps.... until you know its all gone through. If you don't use enough the end of the pipe doesn't get cleaned.
 
A good use of Bankers

"How can this be scientific? As a Hand Surgeon I can assure you that not only is the skin and subcutaneous tissue very different on the back of the hand from the palm, but hands vary from the skin calloused skin of your manual worker compared to the manicured hands of the banker. So without establishing a "Standard Hand" I cannot use this measurement".

You are quite correct, we need a "Standard" hand, so may I suggest we all use the soft hands of a nearby Banker each time we need to conduct this test, at least we will have comparative test results, and a useful contribution can be made by said Bankers!

Any thoughts?

Graham
 
GSL said:
"How can this be scientific? As a Hand Surgeon I can assure you that not only is the skin and subcutaneous tissue very different on the back of the hand from the palm, but hands vary from the skin calloused skin of your manual worker compared to the manicured hands of the banker. So without establishing a "Standard Hand" I cannot use this measurement".

You are quite correct, we need a "Standard" hand, so may I suggest we all use the soft hands of a nearby Banker each time we need to conduct this test, at least we will have comparative test results, and a useful contribution can be made by said Bankers!

Any thoughts?

Graham
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You have the hands of a Woman my Lord :cool:
 
JayBee said:
Hydrochloric Acid is often sold in the UK as brick cleaner, or in our local hardware store as Spirits of Salt.
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I've used it under the name of muriatic acid to clean a calcium type growth off the hull on my boat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

Historically called muriatic acid, and spirits of salt, hydrochloric acid was produced from vitriol (sulfuric acid) and common salt. . . .
Hydrochloric acid is produced in solutions up to 38% HCl (concentrated grade). Higher concentrations up to just over 40% are chemically possible, but the evaporation rate is then so high that storage and handling need extra precautions, such as pressure and low temperature. . . .
Solutions for household purposes in the US, mostly cleaning, are typically 10% to 12%, with strong recommendations to dilute before use. I
n the United Kingdom, where it is sold as "Spirits of Salt" for domestic cleaning, the potency is the same as the US industrial grade.[5]
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The stuff can’t be that harmful when pumped overboard and immediately diluted by a massive anyway. People use it in swimming pools to adjust the PH and I don’t see many swimmers emerging with skin dripping off. I've used it with success on waterlines, aftercoolers, heatechchangers and heads, always with perfect results, it is quite easy to look up if any chemical / acid will affect the components in a modern heads system and they are not listed.
 
JayBee said:
Well it might play havoc with the works, but nobody, yet, has come on here to say that it DOES play havoc with the works. I have never seen anything on a chandler's shelf which claims to remove calcified deposits from heads plumbing. If there is such a product, I would like to see the list of ingredients. Very mild acids like vinegar are practically useless for this purpose.

The other approach is to dismantle everything, beat the daylight out of the pipework on the pontoon and open up the pumps to chisel away at the stuff.

No thanks. My solution works for me and is proven by experience, not theories about what may or may not play havoc with the works.
Click to expand...
+1
I used it on an old pump assembly that I had when I changed it with a new locking pump assembly. Left the lot in a bucket overnight, hubble bubble, toil and trouble, the lot came out as clean as a whistle, no probs for any of the components including the ss rod and nut.
Stu
 
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