Mctavish
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I'll look that up. It's more pushing than towing!
Using dinghy outboard as auxiliary engine??? Novice question!
- Thread starter Mctavish
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Mctavish
Well-Known Member
removable bracket - that's what I want!
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
I think you are overthinking this. You have an outboard in a well which is just what you need. If it breaks down you can sail or if there is no wind use the dingy to tow. Why worry further?
Mctavish
Well-Known Member
I very much enjoy rowing and crewed in an eight so I've done a bit of strenuous rowing! I like the idea of oars as it's a simple mechanism.
Achillesheel
Well-Known Member
We have an Achilles 24, ("Blue") powered normally by a 4hp Suzuki 4st in the well. We have a 2hp Suzuki 4st short shaft that we use for the dinghy and have occasionally had to use this in the well to move the Achilles. But its not ideal because there's not a lot of power, and our 2hp has no reverse. We used it once to get off a crowded mooring, that we didn't want to sail off, and once to come alongside another boat on a swinging mooring. SWMBO, who is always on the helm when we are parking, has just said she wouldn't want to try that again.
The Achilles 24 on the next mooring to us always sails on and off. We have practised this, and once or twice we've had to sail on to a mooring when the (previous) main engine failed. The Achilles sails beautifully and sailing on and off a mooring is achievable - we don't as a rule as SWMBO is a nervous helm, and not strong enough to handle all the stuff at the bow.
I agree about not putting on a transom bracket - difficult to get at, far too far back, ugly, in the way.....
There's an active group of Achilles owners on Flickr - search for Achilles under Groups. If you posed this question under "Discussions" you'd get a lot of good advice.
(Edit - keep the main outboard well maintained and serviced, and hopefully you'll have no need for any auxiliary)
The Achilles 24 on the next mooring to us always sails on and off. We have practised this, and once or twice we've had to sail on to a mooring when the (previous) main engine failed. The Achilles sails beautifully and sailing on and off a mooring is achievable - we don't as a rule as SWMBO is a nervous helm, and not strong enough to handle all the stuff at the bow.
I agree about not putting on a transom bracket - difficult to get at, far too far back, ugly, in the way.....
There's an active group of Achilles owners on Flickr - search for Achilles under Groups. If you posed this question under "Discussions" you'd get a lot of good advice.
(Edit - keep the main outboard well maintained and serviced, and hopefully you'll have no need for any auxiliary)
Mctavish
Well-Known Member
Seajet
That is a practical answer for me as I am very happy rowing. I just saw an article about this "sculling" which is a new meaning to me. http://www.pbo.co.uk/seamanship/sculling-over-the-stern-20811
I'm curious to try this now!
Mctavish
Well-Known Member
I'm not worried, exactly. If I can't sail, I use the engine. If there is a problem with the engine, then what are the alternatives?
What ways can you move the boat - which actually work - when the mainsail is being repaired and you're tootling about with the engine and there's an issue with the engine. Is it worth bothering to take the tender along? Those are questions, not overthinking!
doug748
Well-Known Member
Further to post 11, this is the general method in action:
The boat shown has three times your displacement. Using 2.5hp would give the GibSea perhaps up to 2kts in flat water.
You could water ski.
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Mctavish
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I'll take at least two crew, one to sit in the dinghy and one to film.
doug748
Well-Known Member
fwiw, personal test: in flat water, my rubber dinghy with its 4hp outboard, tied to the side of my 40 footer, can propel it at 2kt. It takes a couple of minutes to achieve "full speed"
Yes indeed. Here is our very own Dylan Winter in action on a slalom course:
Video courtesy of KTL ;-)
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You have two methods of propulsion. If neither are tenable you either drift or anchor and wait for wind. That's the time-honoured way. If you want a third means of propulsion, then another outboard used in the existing well or a nice long oar will do the job in an Achilles.
Iain C
Well-Known Member
You say that swapping the tender o/b for a long shaft makes the tender ineffectual...not sure what kind of crawling up perfectly flat bottomed non-tidal creeks you are planning on doing but there's literally inches between the two types of leg.
My dinghy outboard combo should be a Suzuki DF2.5 short shaft on an Avon R3.80. However that engine is temporarily knackered so I've been using a Yamaha 5hp long shaft 2 stroke instead. It's bloody brilliant...the R380 planes at 13kts (according to the GPS) and if I had an up/down bracket thing on the back of my Sabre, I know that 5hp would push it along quite nicely.
As has been said above you may be over thinking this but don't discount a long shaft. Here's two typical legs for comparison...
My dinghy outboard combo should be a Suzuki DF2.5 short shaft on an Avon R3.80. However that engine is temporarily knackered so I've been using a Yamaha 5hp long shaft 2 stroke instead. It's bloody brilliant...the R380 planes at 13kts (according to the GPS) and if I had an up/down bracket thing on the back of my Sabre, I know that 5hp would push it along quite nicely.
As has been said above you may be over thinking this but don't discount a long shaft. Here's two typical legs for comparison...
Seajet
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One thing to consider about long shaft engines is, will they fit in the cockpit locker ?
On my Anderson a standard shaft engine stows in the port cockpit locker - which is a good idea either by Oliver Lee's design or pure luck as it's relatively in line with the well and means one can leave the autopilot connected to starboard.
On the A22 and I'm sure the Achilles, the idea is to stow the engine as soon as in clear water then fit the fairing plug to give a drag-free hull; when the engine is out of the well, before the fairing plug is fitted there is a surprising amount of turbulence and noise, but in all my time with the boat I've never experienced the flooding when going astern or the engine choking on exhaust fumes some people describe on other boats.
The well fairing plug is nigh on essential to make the most out of the boat, it gives over 1 knot speed advantage as well as the quiet; some people misguidedly have whacking great 8-9hp 4 strokes they have to leave in the well as they need Robocop to lift them; this ruins the whole boat, as I often say it's like flying a Spitfire with the wheels down - I'm sure this applies to the Achilles too.
I and friends have found well maintained Mariner 5hp two-strokes are the ultimate engine for now, when I tried four strokes I thought ' OK what joker has bolted this to the floor then ?! '
I'm quite serious when I say a lot of thought is going into electric drive for the A22, bypassing four strokes.
On my Anderson a standard shaft engine stows in the port cockpit locker - which is a good idea either by Oliver Lee's design or pure luck as it's relatively in line with the well and means one can leave the autopilot connected to starboard.
On the A22 and I'm sure the Achilles, the idea is to stow the engine as soon as in clear water then fit the fairing plug to give a drag-free hull; when the engine is out of the well, before the fairing plug is fitted there is a surprising amount of turbulence and noise, but in all my time with the boat I've never experienced the flooding when going astern or the engine choking on exhaust fumes some people describe on other boats.
The well fairing plug is nigh on essential to make the most out of the boat, it gives over 1 knot speed advantage as well as the quiet; some people misguidedly have whacking great 8-9hp 4 strokes they have to leave in the well as they need Robocop to lift them; this ruins the whole boat, as I often say it's like flying a Spitfire with the wheels down - I'm sure this applies to the Achilles too.
I and friends have found well maintained Mariner 5hp two-strokes are the ultimate engine for now, when I tried four strokes I thought ' OK what joker has bolted this to the floor then ?! '
I'm quite serious when I say a lot of thought is going into electric drive for the A22, bypassing four strokes.
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Mctavish
Well-Known Member
I need to replace the plug. I'll ask on the excellent Achilles forum.
Seajet
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I have an Elvstrom Supermax self bailer in my well plug, this takes care of spray when sailing - in heavy weather one can remove the plug giving the world's largest cockpit drain - and it's closeable if one has a party in the cockpit weighing the stern down.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
A dinghy and outboard should be tied to a stern quarter then you can steer the boat.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
I did exactly that on a similar sized boat with a 3hp engine using a spring lifting bracket. Worked fine and even made headway in a gale not much but some. Also made transfering the engine from dingy to boat easier. Big trick was starting in the up position and getting it into the down position smartly. In waves it broke surface occasionally but gave no concerns.
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What you say is perfectly true and would be the best practice. However when we bought our Achilles it came with a huge 8hp Suzuki which I could barely lift. We replaced it with a 4hp Mariner, but as we didn't have a plug, we left the motor in all the time. I believe the flooding-in-astern is caused by the short-shaft prop forcing water aginst the aftvwall of the well.
There is a large void under the cockpit which is perfect for outboard storage, but I guess not for a four-stroke because of the restriction on inverting them.
Snifter
Well-Known Member
When I had an A24 it came with a 5hp Honda 4 stroke, and that was great for cruising, but it was heavy to lift out of the well (25kg) and put below when racing. So I bought a secondhand 3.5hp Tohatsu 2 stroke for racing. It weighed 13kg, and was easy to pick up and stow below, and it would push the boat along at 5kts without effort when going to and from the race course.
Then when cruising I’d have the 5hp in the well and the 3.5hp on the pushpit for emergencies, although I don’t think the Honda ever failed.
On my current A840 I have a VP 2002 diesel backed up by a 10ft sweep!
Then when cruising I’d have the 5hp in the well and the 3.5hp on the pushpit for emergencies, although I don’t think the Honda ever failed.
On my current A840 I have a VP 2002 diesel backed up by a 10ft sweep!
davidaprice
Well-Known Member
My 31' yacht does 5 knots with her 2hp Honda outboard, in flat water and no wind. She's a "Hai 2000", weighs 1700kg, but has a very narrow hull, only 6'3" beam. Think Dragon class, but narrower. She has such low freeboard that a short shaft engine is fine, but I doubt I'd get far if there were any waves.