Used Bayliner import to uk, will i pay duty?

[mateyboy]

I can't see the problem with a US boat provided it CE marking and all paperwork is legitimate, the boats are more likely to be dry stored and or fresh water use than the average UK boat. It will be more than likely coming from Florida so it hasn't had as many cold winters perishing away the fixtures etc. Having said that, I would still want a cheaper than UK all in price so as give a little future proofing assurance.

 

[DAKA]

Having owned a US boat and having lived with a US boat I can see why an import is worth less, a lot less..............

I went to have a look at a Cruiser express 38ft twin cummins diesels and going for a song..........
I was already to sign when a mate brought to my attention all the hassle and we walked away.....

Inverters
plugs
fastenings
microwaves
bulbs
battery chargers


And back to the US boat I owned, imported by Bayliner Aquatic from Brand new

All the pipes were us coast guard approved which is theoretically as good/better/equal to BS but you cant tell that to some little jumped up official who wants you to spend £6000 on changing the pipes before you can use it on inland waters.

All the nuts/bolts arnt available off the shelf.
The macerator and most pumps werent available UK off the shelf
The fuel tank leaked, a so called specialist wasnt able even after 4 attempts to make a tank that fitted (couldnt work out the metric inches).
I had a tank flown in from the US in the end, a week before new UK legislation was passed to say it had to be tested in the UK as the US test wasnt acceptable, tested to 5 BAR in the US isnt the same as tested to 5Bar in the UK

a mate had a sealine imported from Denmark, it was also a pain at times.

Buy in the UK, stick to British built boats if you want high residuals.

If you want to cruise in a cheap shed then fair enough look further a field but it could turn out to be a false economy..........

It will always be a pain in the rrs
you will spend days repairing petty failures
you will be viewed by some as little more than a tramp on the water and will not be taken seriously as a boater
your investment will turn into a money pit

 

[PaulGooch]

Having owned a US boat and having lived with a US boat I can see why an import is worth less, a lot less..............

I went to have a look at a Cruiser express 38ft twin cummins diesels and going for a song..........
I was already to sign when a mate brought to my attention all the hassle and we walked away.....

Inverters
plugs
fastenings
microwaves
bulbs
battery chargers


And back to the US boat I owned, imported by Bayliner Aquatic from Brand new

All the pipes were us coast guard approved which is theoretically as good/better/equal to BS but you cant tell that to some little jumped up official who wants you to spend £6000 on changing the pipes before you can use it on inland waters.

All the nuts/bolts arnt available off the shelf.
The macerator and most pumps werent available UK off the shelf
The fuel tank leaked, a so called specialist wasnt able even after 4 attempts to make a tank that fitted (couldnt work out the metric inches).
I had a tank flown in from the US in the end, a week before new UK legislation was passed to say it had to be tested in the UK as the US test wasnt acceptable, tested to 5 BAR in the US isnt the same as tested to 5Bar in the UK

a mate had a sealine imported from Denmark, it was also a pain at times.

Buy in the UK, stick to British built boats if you want high residuals.

If you want to cruise in a cheap shed then fair enough look further a field but it could turn out to be a false economy..........

It will always be a pain in the rrs
you will spend days repairing petty failures
you will be viewed by some as little more than a tramp on the water and will not be taken seriously as a boater
your investment will turn into a money pit

Sorry Pete, but this post makes no sense on so many levels, i don't know where to start.

 

[DAKA]

put simply

you need to gut the boat and change the equipment to UK specification(alright not everything).

All of it is doable but at extreme inconvenience = imported boats are worth less, a lot less, I wouldnt go there again, seeing as I am a potential buyer then buyers are reduced and residuals are reduced.

 

[nrbx]

Agre with DAKA,

I had a Bayliner 2455 import, i had to replace everything electical to run it on 230 volts without the need for a massive transformer.

Nice boat now though, should probably get around to selling it, i suppose once all the work is done theres a lot more "new" stuff onboard than on the similar UK boat however.

 

[Kipper]

Sorry Pete, but this post makes no sense on so many levels, i don't know where to start.


I will second that.
Usual rose tinted view of UK boats.

Give me a good US boat anyday.

 

[DAKA]

Sorry Pete, but this post makes no sense on so many levels, i don't know where to start.


I will second that.
Usual rose tinted view of UK boats.

Give me a good US boat anyday.

Let me try to explain

Bayliners are great value for money and my first choice for a trail boat being built so light and tardis interiors.

BUT

The fittings are US and when they break are not readily available off the shelf from UK chandlers.

A broken anchor locker cover means a trip up to Scotland if your lucky or weeks in shipping delays.

Macerator- US patern number not readily available in the UK (as above)

Many smaller boats such as Bayliners spend a lot of time inland (cheaper moorings and more appropriate waters .......
for Inland use you need a BSS cert

Pipes marked USCG should pass but dont.

The whole boat is imperial and most chandlers in UK are stocked full of metric

110 volt stuff will not work on UK 240v shorepower and inverters dont work.

Fuel tank was marked as tested to USCG and 5 BAR, BSS requirement is also 5BAR but not technically acceptable.

Sure you can buy an imported US boat and have great fun at the coast but as it is not allowed on 99% of inland waters you will have a boat that you can only sell on to a few interested buyers who dont ever want to go inland, first time family buyers usually plan much of their boating inland.

 

[EugeneR]

I went to have a look at a Cruiser express 38ft twin cummins diesels and going for a song.......... I was already to sign when a mate brought to my attention all the hassle and we walked away.....

Inverters
plugs
fastenings
microwaves
bulbs
battery chargers

Yes, these things have to be done. It takes a few hours ordering in advance and about two days' work to do this properly, and everything else needed for the CE. If you know what you are doing. Or you can ask someone to do it for you. I am a perfectionist, I love doing this kind of work and, on that size boat, I love the £50k+ saving I get while ending with an identical boat in the end. But, I agree some people might see it as hassle.

And back to the US boat I owned, imported by Bayliner Aquatic from Brand new. All the pipes were us coast guard approved which is theoretically as good/better/equal to BS but you cant tell that to some little jumped up official who wants you to spend £6000 on changing the pipes before you can use it on inland waters.

This argument concerns US versus UK boats, not personal imports as such. I don't have experience with jumped up officials however from what I can see, Bayliners are pretty common - the most popular brand in Europe by number - and I have not heard anyone moan about this issue. I would be interested to hear from others about this?

All the nuts/bolts arnt available off the shelf.
The macerator and most pumps werent available UK off the shelf

Again, your argument here concerns US versus UK boats. For personally imported boats, I would say that parts availability for personal imports are the same as for officially imported boats.

Brunswick i.e. the company behind Bayliner etc uses standard components including Perko buts/bolts/fittings, BEP panels, Jabsco heads, Johnson water and bilge pumps, etc. These are all globally respected manufacturers with EU distributors. Factually, that covers all pumps and macerators on Bayliners since at least 2000. So, I do not see the situation you describe above applying today, sorry.

The fuel tank leaked, a so called specialist wasnt able even after 4 attempts to make a tank that fitted (couldnt work out the metric inches). I had a tank flown in from the US in the end, a week before new UK legislation was passed to say it had to be tested in the UK as the US test wasnt acceptable, tested to 5 BAR in the US isnt the same as tested to 5Bar in the UK

It sounds like your initial issue was the so-called "specialist". I wonder how the official importers dealt with the change in legislation? Surely new US boats would have to comply and therefore compliant parts would be, or become, available?

However, I agree that importing a large fuel tank is probably as expensive an example as you get when comparing US versus UK but still, it's but a fraction of the savings you get compared to buying a British boat and the extra savings from personally importing the same.

If you want to cruise in a cheap shed then fair enough look further a field but it could turn out to be a false economy..........

I enjoy "cheap" brands like Bayliner and Bavaria and don't feel a single inch that I am cruising around in a shed. Quite the opposite - I enjoy the fact that I can easily afford to maintain it in perfect condition, with no custom wooden panels to scratch, etc. That said, I appreciate that my own view torwards a [insert cheap car brand here] and understand your feeling... but not your bashing of imported boats.

I have not seen the false economy you mention - all mine appreciated over the time I had them. Then again, given my savings I could afford to keep them in perfect condition

you will spend days repairing petty failures
you will be viewed by some as little more than a tramp on the water and will not be taken seriously as a boater your investment will turn into a money pit

I think this is nonsense. I don't think that personal imports as opposed to official imports contribute to the number of petty failures experienced. Nor US boats versus British boats to the scale you suggest.

And if some sees me as a tramp on water, maybe the problem is with them?

In summary, I understand your US versus UK view but I do not agree since my experience is clearly different. Possibly, my aims and expectations are different, too.

However, my point was about people bashing personal imports without valid reason... and your response seems to do exactly that and more...

To the OP, sorry for the tangent to your original question but hopefully, if of course you are genuinely looking to do this, you get some insight into the issues one can expect

 

[DAKA]

I am just attempting to convey my personal experience.

I agree Jabsco is universal available however the Jabsco model I needed wasnt available in the UK.
Alright it was something that experienced importers could be got around but it left us without a head for a month.
When my UK built Princess had a maccerator problem , I went to Force 4 in Lyminton bought the replacement off the shelf and had replaced it within hours.

 

[DAKA]

However, I agree that importing a large fuel tank is probably as expensive an example as you get when comparing US versus UK but still, it's but a fraction of the savings you get compared to buying a British boat and the extra savings from personally importing the same.

I agree you can get on the water cheaply and thats great and a good reason to buy a pre imported boat.

However the sale value is low, although you have got on the water cheaply you will not get off the water with much left in your wallet.

Its better to buy older UK boats, still get on the water cheaply and when you get off the water you get back most of your investment.
when things break you walk to the local chandlers, replace the damaged item and get back to enjoying boating.

 

[Kipper]

Hi Daka

I agree with what you say about imported boats being a hassle but I was just objecting to the usual UK boats are better built as is often stated on this forum. I have had both US and british built sports boats and have found the US boats to be better built better value and easy enough to sell. When buying our last 30 footer I considered the british alternative but soon ruled it out on value for money, size as it was 2 foot short of its badge and performance.

At the end of the day its horses for courses but you cant knock the US boats on their Bang for the Bucks

Gary

 

[EugeneR]

I had a Bayliner 2455 import, i had to replace everything electical to run it on 230 volts without the need for a massive transformer.

On a 245/275/265/285, here's what you need to replace:

Microwave - £40 for identical model in the UK under different brand name. All made by Galanz in China. Or, $100 transport to import a $30 Tappan/Origo/etc oven from the US if you want to keep it 100% the same, as I do.
Charger - No need to, it's dual voltage
Wiring - No need to, it's rated for double the amps already, and tinned too!
Calorifier - Replace the element for around £27. EU regs require switching on both lines to the element so another £50 for temperature and pressure switches. All easily accessible, though.
Circuit breakers - Reduce all by 50%. However, by moving them "one step down", you just need to buy two or three at the top. They are BEP switches but are made by Airpax and/or Carlingswitch so you can get them quite easily.
Cooker - Replace the element, around £30. If you have an electronic circuit i.e. Origo 4300E, change the 120/240v jumper on the circuit board to make it 240v. Yes, it's that simple.
Fridge - It works using 12v or 110v. Simply disconnect the 110v supply and it will always works. However, to avoid the battery feeding the fridge throught the charger which causes the charger fan to go on during the night - replace with a 12v power supply from 240v supply which is right behind the fridge already.
Radio - Remember to set the radio to International frequencies
Power panel V-meter - Replace. This is around £50.
Marinco inlet - The 240v and 110v sockets differ by around 0.1mm3 on the plate thicknesses. Technically, as you will be sending less amps through, you may not bother. However, to get the external sticker saying the right thing, replace it with 240v version. It's the right thing to do

Here are the difficult parts:

Power panel LED's - Replace the resistors controlling the current through the LED's, with double the R and P values. Alternatively, get a new panel but given that BEP is a premium product, replacing the resistors is much cheaper.
Internal power sockets - Remove the power sockets and fit Euro or UK ones. I prefer making the right-sized cut-out and fitting a backing box, giving you a properly protected and nicely flush-mounted 240v socket. I include RCD protection for safety even though in Europe that is duplicated on the land-side.

None of this should have any visible impact. The flush-mounted sockets look better and are much safer, in my view, than the external boxes that some official importers fitted.

Of course, all at your own risk. If anyone needs help with doing theirs, just give me an IM. If around the Solent, I'm more than happy to help you at no charge, subject to having time!

 

[EugeneR]

All of it is doable but at extreme inconvenience = imported boats are worth less, a lot less

The original buyer gets the hassle but also the cost benefit. Once all's taken care of, why should he have to sell for less? Also, he can afford to price the boat more competitively, sell it quicker and still make a profit, compared to the officially imported boat.

ps. I was not sure whether you meant "off the shelf" or simply being available in the UK for quick delivery. In my earlier response, I assumed the latter but you are right in that you don't get those pumps etc in your local chandlery.

 

[PaulGooch]

Let me try to explain

Bayliners are great value for money and my first choice for a trail boat being built so light and tardis interiors.

BUT

The fittings are US and when they break are not readily available off the shelf from UK chandlers.

A broken anchor locker cover means a trip up to Scotland if your lucky or weeks in shipping delays.

Macerator- US patern number not readily available in the UK (as above)

Many smaller boats such as Bayliners spend a lot of time inland (cheaper moorings and more appropriate waters .......
for Inland use you need a BSS cert

Pipes marked USCG should pass but dont.

The whole boat is imperial and most chandlers in UK are stocked full of metric

110 volt stuff will not work on UK 240v shorepower and inverters dont work.

Fuel tank was marked as tested to USCG and 5 BAR, BSS requirement is also 5BAR but not technically acceptable.

Sure you can buy an imported US boat and have great fun at the coast but as it is not allowed on 99% of inland waters you will have a boat that you can only sell on to a few interested buyers who dont ever want to go inland, first time family buyers usually plan much of their boating inland.

Problem here Pete, you tried to import one and not do the full and proper conversion.

If the cost of the boat, shipping, import duty and VAT, CE plating and a proper conversion still give a worthwhile saving, i can't see the problem. You'll have a boat that you just made significant saving on and have had a thorough check over, with a lot of brand new parts.

As for metric/imperial fixing, that's a non-starter. Any decent nut and bolt company will have good stocks of stainless imperial fastenings. Ebay is full of them. The UK is full of stuff with imperial fastenings. Any US imported stuff will be imperial, Harleys, big 4x4's etc

 

[DAKA]

Problem here Pete, you tried to import one and not do the full and proper conversion.

My post wasnt intended to be misleading.

I looked at an imported boat and didnt buy it.

The boat I bought was made in the US and sold new in the UK by the importers Bayliner Aquatic.

It was UK specification but had all the issues as listed above.

They are great boats.
Well worth the money.
Reasonable build quality.

BUT you are not going to get rich or save money through importing one.
You will get a really cheap boat but it will loose money not make money.
In the long run importing it isnt a saving it is a cost.

In particular Bayliner have a poor reputation in the UK ( I love Bayliners but others dont), if you want to make money then buy a cheap unwanted Bayliner in the UK and export it to a country that endures them with affection !

 

[EugeneR]

I'll try to stop after this post, but...

you are not going to get rich or save money through importing one. You will get a really cheap boat but it will loose money not make money. In the long run importing it isnt a saving it is a cost.

Not true. My boat was fully paid by appreciation on earlier boats. It started with a loan that was repaid when the first boat was sold and I had enough to money left to import the next one, etc.

Bayliner have a poor reputation in the UK ( I love Bayliners but others dont), if you want to make money then buy a cheap unwanted Bayliner in the UK and export it to a country that endures them with affection !

Bayliner was the best selling brand in Europe in 2009, IIRC. If so, there does not appear to be an absence of affection for them. More concretely, if you look at boatshop24 statistics you will see that there are more people looking for Bayliners than for any other brand.

Look at Bavaria. Don't you think Bavaria won't make extra sure that their keels were strongly attached, in future? Now, consider how long their bad reputation will continue. And how much of that would be perception as opposed to reality?

Brunswick took over Bayliner many years ago. Before that, yes there were quality problems. Today, they are robust, seaworthy boats but are factory made with little if any real wood etc. From a value for money perspective, just like the Fords of today.

It's a shame that those things that lower the cost of entry into the boating scene e.g. Bayliner, Bavaria and importing of boats, are being knocked because of incorrect perceptions.

 

[enterprise]

Just to add a little background to my previous comments re cost saving of importing.

Iv'e owned a Bayliner 2255 ciera that was imported (not by me) as a grey import, you could say that at the time I was very nieve and didn't really do my homework so didn't think anything of it (didn't know it was imported when we made the offer).
We bought it at a reasonable price which at the time was comparable to the similar UK models listed.

We had three seasons with it and upgraded the interior, added shorepower and eventually had to renew the engine but that was my fault but did have a bearing on resale.

When we decided to sell we had much interest, (mainly due to the new engine) we had at least 3 seriously interested buyers, until we declared it had been imported, they were still interested but at a reduced price so I told them all to bugger off and find a better one if they could, knowing we had probably the best one around (garaged for 8 months per year, lovingly polished etc).

We sold it in around six weeks & apart from the new engine it really didn't lose any money, we sold it for what we had paid to someone who didn't necessarily ask the right questions! (but then I didn't miss lead them either way).

This was all pre-internet days so information was only available if you were prepared to phone around etc, with the advent of internet it's now so much easier to get info, including info on importing, pricing etc.
It's so much easier to find the right boat at the right money without the need to import.

I will agree that a fully converted personal import is good if not better than an officially imported equivalent but that is only going to be in the opinion of the vendor, I can vouch for some people's idea of high standards but as a buyer how would you know it's been done right ?, it could just as easily be a death trap!
The argument for most seems to be the savings made over the uk market equivalent, but that's just plain delusion, until the time comes to sell the real ownership cost is unknown, as with comparing to a UK boat, the eventual sale price is unknown.

It's not so simple comparing a known value (the boat as purchased pre import) against an advertised boat that remains unsold, the saving might be less than you think, not often does a boat sell for the advertised price so how do you know that by importing you are really making a saving?, it's like saying you got a bargain when getting something less than RRP, until you realise that's the price everyone gets.

It cost's no more to own a UK supplied boat as it would a converted import as long as it's maintained, the draw for most who take on importing is the belief they are getting a bargain, only to be able to sell later at what they now think is a boat equal if not better than a UK supplied one at the same price, like us with our first, it will sell at a price but unless you sell to someone who hasn't done their homework it will be less than the UK boat.

It was pure relief when we sold ours, we didn't buy particularly cheap, but then were not talking vast sums to start, I personally wouldn't take the risk again although we didn't know to start, information now readily available makes it even riskier for the vendor when it's time to move it on.

 

[GrahamHR]

My boat was made in America, it's hoses, pumps etc etc are marked with the appropriate USCG and CE symbols, I can't believe the manufacturer would waste money by buying different bits and pieces depending on where the boat was going, unless they were stupid or really had to (110V appliances vs 220 etc). I'm sure that, except for the little CE plate, if I went to America and bought the same model, everything would be the same as on my "European" one. If anything, the American one might have better equipment; my previous boat didn't have opening Cuddy portholes, the American market one of the same vintage did ! My official UK import doesn't have UK sockets for the shore power, they are "continental" ones requiring a travel adaptor!

Every marine accessory I have looked at in America in the last 10 years or so has been CE (as well as USCG) marked . This "import" issue seems to be a red herring.

Graham

 

[GrahamHR]

.............and following on from this, what would be the problem with me (or someone else) getting copies of the CE plate made and affixing them to imported similar boats? The "official" boat came with a certificate indicating all the models CE approved for that manufacturer for that year. The "official" boat has a US hull numbere, as would "unofficial "imports.

To me, it seems a means of making money for importers and justifying this " mported boats are poor value and I'm glad I paid a lot more " illusion (or delusion)

Graham