USB GPS warning

Norman_E

Norman_E

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My purchase of a Gigabyte Brix mini PC for boat use has revealed that all new PC's using Intel generation 6 processors lack the legacy EHCI controller support to run USB2 devices (other than simple memory sticks, which seem to be OK) therefore if you buy one you will find that your USB GPS dongle will not work.
 
nigelmercier said:
Surely you just need a driver?
Click to expand...

No, it needs support for USB2 within the processor instruction set. The new Silvermot processors do not have it, nor is there any legacy support provided in the BIOS. I am awaiting a reply from Gigabyte, who provide a utility to allow Widows 7 to be loaded, with USB2 support, but I have clean installed a new copy of Windows 10 and don't want to have to load 7 (I don't even have a copy) and if I did so then upgraded to 10, would it still work? So far I cannot see any supplier of USB3 GPS dongles, and I really don't want to go the Bluetooth GPS route, needing another charger.
 
Something a bit odd here. USB 3.0 has legacy support for USB devices. I'm using Win 7 on my laptop, which has USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 controllers, my GPS dongle works perfectly OK on both.

Which dongle did you buy ?
 
PaulRainbow said:
Something a bit odd here. USB 3.0 has legacy support for USB devices. I'm using Win 7 on my laptop, which has USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 controllers, my GPS dongle works perfectly OK on both.

Which dongle did you buy ?
Click to expand...

I have a U-blox 7 like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GPS-Smart...f64927b480412b03b68086&pid=100506&rk=1&rkt=1&
The issue is not the dongle which works perfectly when tried on either of my laptops or on my Sumvision Boat PC, all of which have USB2 ports. The point about USB compatibility is that while all USB3 devices will work, albeit at slower data transfer rates, in USB2 ports, but the same is just not true the other way round. For a USB2 device to work in a USB3 port the USB3 port has to have support for USB2 mode, which is built in to the USB controller. In the case of the latest Intel processors there is no legacy EHCI support meaning that USB2 devices are not supported. I await a reply from Gigabyte, but the problem may be insurmountable, unless a firmware update can be applied.
 
Norman_E said:
I have a U-blox 7 like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GPS-Smart...f64927b480412b03b68086&pid=100506&rk=1&rkt=1&
The issue is not the dongle which works perfectly when tried on either of my laptops or on my Sumvision Boat PC, all of which have USB2 ports. The point about USB compatibility is that while all USB3 devices will work, albeit at slower data transfer rates, in USB2 ports, but the same is just not true the other way round. For a USB2 device to work in a USB3 port the USB3 port has to have support for USB2 mode, which is built in to the USB controller. In the case of the latest Intel processors there is no legacy EHCI support meaning that USB2 devices are not supported. I await a reply from Gigabyte, but the problem may be insurmountable, unless a firmware update can be applied.
Click to expand...

As i read it, that's not entirely correct. USB 3.0 controllers should ave legacy support for USB 2.0 devices. Otherwise there are millions of things that wouldn't work, mice, keyboards, webcams, bluetooth dongles etc. The publicised problems with 6th Gen is the inability to install Win7 from USB.

That said, not every USB 2.0 actually works on a USB controller. I've had all sorts of anomalys setting my USB stuff up. I have a TV dongle that's USB2.0 but works in a USB 3.0 port but won't work through a hub, or even an extension cable, for instance. Hope you find a solution.
 
Dougal Tolan said:
Could you fix it with a USB hub?
Click to expand...

I tried that, and the answer is no. Paul Rainbow is right in most cases, but the Brix has a BIOS choice to make before installing the operating system, with a legacy BIOS for Windows 7, a UEFI Bios for Windows 8 & 10 and another one for Linux. There is a utility on the driver CD to put USB2 support onto a USB3 dongle along with the Windows 7 installation files, but that is no use if running Windows 10. In fact the driver CD appears faulty as I tried to create such a dongle, and it failed to transfer the files!
 
Are you saying the options for a mini PC with the current Intel chips are either (a) to run Windows 7 with USB2.0 ports and a USB GPS dongle, or (b) to run Windows 10 with USB3.0 ports for which no GPS dongle is available, therefore a Bluetooth connection is needed for GPS data?
Is there no other way to feed GPS data into the Brix apart from USB and Buetooth?
 
Hi All

Just been referred to this thread - I usually only post on the Motorboat Forum.

I have been helping a friend install a Gigabyte Brix 2807 onto his Lagoon Cat
All my own PCs are Windows 7 - I don't want to upgrade - I don't like the latest Microsoft concepts.
I'm hoping that by the time I need to replace Windows 7, there will be another alternative (ReactOS or something similar).
Call me old fashioned but I don't like all this automatic upgrading (all the time mending things that aren't broken).
Anyway, back to the point.
For reasons stated above, my friend is using Windows 7 on his Brix 2807 (I have also been using the Brix 2807 for other applications)
In all cases, I set the BIOS switch to Windows 7 and set it to non UEFI BIOS.

So, have we had any problems ? - well "kind of" but I don't think it is related to your issues.

My friend went out and bought a cheap USB GPS dongle thing which he plugged in and it just worked.
We both use OpenCPN - and are both big supporters.
When I was last helping him (about 2 weeks ago) I didn't take much notice of the GPS device.
I have been recommending the use of a proper isolated Actisense USB to NMEA 0183 converter.
I've been using them on my boat for about 8 years without a single hitch.
I'm trying to get my friend's Brix computer to use the ships NMEA data.
That way, OpenCPN will see AIS and Radar targets and there is also an option to send data the other way if required.
I say all this because we had some trouble getting the Actisense converter to work.
Plugging it into a USB 2 port worked - plugging it into a USB 3 port didn't work.
Strangely plugging it into a USB 3 port AFTER plugging it into a USB 2 port did seem to work.
The next day, my friend couldn't get the Actisense working so he plugged in his cheap GPS dongle and set sail for Ibiza.
We haven't had time to investigate further but I suspect that we will probably end up plugging both the Actisense and the cheap GPS dongle into the USB 2 port (using a USB hub that he has installed).

I thought that it might be helpful to you to have read our experiences.

You are using Windows 10 so it is a completely different circumstance.
In you position, I would dump Windows 10 and go back to Windows 7 - is there any reason you can't do that?
 
nigelmercier said:
Why not throw away the GPS and use a sextant.
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Thats just a silly comment.
I've read you posts before ind that isn't your style so I will assume that you are one of the people who like W10 and you are just making your point.

I'm sure there are loads of people who agree with my view of Windows 10.
But then there are some that love it.

Maybe you can tell me what benefits I would get if I moved all my systems up to W10?
 
Hurricane said:
Thats just a silly comment.
I've read you posts before ind that isn't your style so I will assume that you are one of the people who like W10 and you are just making your point.

I'm sure there are loads of people who agree with my view of Windows 10.
But then there are some that love it.

Maybe you can tell me what benefits I would get if I moved all my systems up to W10?
Click to expand...

I absolutely hated Win8 when it came installed on a laptop, straight back to Win7 for me and that's where i'll stay for as long as i can.

Unless i dump my boat and get a dugout canoe :)
 
nigelmercier said:
It simply makes no sense to run a superceded OS on anything that will run a later version, especially as the upgrade from Windows 7 or 8 is free (for about three weeks).
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense if the OS you are using does everything that you want and you don't like the later versions.

Do you upgrade your TV, Plotter, washing machine everytime a new one comes out ?
 
nigelmercier said:
It simply makes no sense to run a superceded OS on anything that will run a later version, especially as the upgrade from Windows 7 or 8 is free (for about three weeks).
Click to expand...

Have you had any experience of W10 suddenly causing problems.

Two of my neighbours (independently) upgraded to W10 - everything was fine.
Until one day the switched on their system and found no Start menu.

The whole concept of Microsoft's Windows is moving towards cloud computing.
I believe that the next generation of Windows will operate entirely in the cloud.
W10 even now relies on regular upgrades happening automatically.
Yes - you can "kind of" disable upgrades but eventually, W10 needs to upgrade.
Now apply that concept to a boat where you don't always have a good reliable internet - or even any internet at all.

Conversely, W7 was the last operating system that could be set up to ignore any external updates.
Even W7 has some "Telemetry" updates that need to be removed - Telemetry modules that call for it to be upgraded for example.

IMO, if people want to use OpenCPN as their primary plotter, the last thing they want is to power it up and find that it is all different since the last time it was used.
This is the reason that I have stuck to W10

So, I say again - can you think of a good reason to move away from W7?
Is there anything in W10 that I can't do in W7?
 
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