Upgrading Inverter/ charger

Daverw

Daverw

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I’m currently planning to replace my separate victron charger and inverter for a Multiplus, we currentry have a vsr fitted between house and starter batter, the Multiplus has option to trickle charge starter battery which I would like to do however not sure if I remove the vsr what do I need to fit or rewire to allow house to charge from alternator. All the diagrams don’t seem to show what to mod.
 
Replace vsr with a single sensing one so that the alternator still charges the general services battery ........... but don't know of a decent microprocessor controlled one that would be the single sensing equivalent of a Cyrix. Maybe someone does.

Or replace the vsr with an Argofet
 
I would agree with the argo FET recommendation, though you may also need to think about your 'emergency' link solution as some use the VSR for that sometimes.

Though I'm curious. Are you replacing your equipment because it's not working or are you upgrading for extra features like power assist?
 
I need to upgrade the inverter as currently only 500w and microwave needed on board and the power assist of the Multiplus looks good as our club are also down sizing our shore supply to 6amp, we have manual switched emergency combine. Looking further it looks like the argo fet is needed as it only switches when alternator output and not battery charger. In effect a one way switch.
 
That's exactly how the argo FET works.

Ok understand now.

What model are you going for (as the larger ones minimum input current is over 6 amps!)
 
Looking at Multiplus 1600, the input can be reduced and then it uses both shore power and battery together, can then be increased when on larger shore supplies. Looks like I can also use dc to dc converter as option
 
Just found their schematic that shows both options and also battery disconnect,
from there info, Argofet needs to sense alternator but dc to dc does this automatically
 
Daverw said:
Just found their schematic that shows both options and also battery disconnect,
from there info, Argofet needs to sense alternator but dc to dc does this automatically
Click to expand...
I think you are looking at the alternator "energise" connectionn which maybe needed with some (many?) alternators. No problem if its needed . Explained in the manual.
 
VicS said:
I think you are looking at the alternator "energise" connectionn which maybe needed with some (many?) alternators. No problem if its needed . Explained in the manual.
Click to expand...

I have one alternator with an exicter terminal on it, that doesn't care about the argo FET.

And another two that won't charge unless the terminals used.

Most need to see a voltage on the output in order to work especially the smaller ones on the typical yacht
 
You could simply leave the VSR in place and just use the main charger output on the house bank, unless for some reason you really want to use the starter battery output. Bear in mind each battery will just take what it needs.
 
dk said:
You could simply leave the VSR in place and just use the main charger output on the house bank, unless for some reason you really want to use the starter battery output. Bear in mind each battery will just take what it needs.
Click to expand...
That was plan A before I started to look at being clever,
 
Daverw said:
That was plan A before I started to look at being clever,
Click to expand...
You could keep the VSR, rather than fit an Argofet. but fit a relay, energised from the engine "ignition" / run circuit with a pair of normally open contacts in its negative connection

when the engine is switched on to run the relay will close and the VSR will function normally allowing the alternator to charge the house services battery as well as the engine start battery as happens at present.

When the engine is switched off the relay contacts will open , disabling the VSR. If the Multi-Plus is then used it will charge the house services battery though its main multistage output and the engine start battery via its "trickle charge" output as you require.
 
VicS said:
You could keep the VSR, rather than fit an Argofet. but fit a relay, energised from the engine "ignition" / run circuit with a pair of normally open contacts in its negative connection

when the engine is switched on to run the relay will close and the VSR will function normally allowing the alternator to charge the house services battery as well as the engine start battery as happens at present.

When the engine is switched off the relay contacts will open , disabling the VSR. If the Multi-Plus is then used it will charge the house services battery though its main multistage output and the engine start battery via its "trickle charge" output as you require.
Click to expand...
That’s seems a very good work around
 
Daverw said:
That’s seems a very good work around
Click to expand...

It is not a good idea.

With the engine running, or any other thing that will cause the VSR to close) the engine battery will be in parallel to the domestic battery (obviously), operate the inverter and it will try and draw a potentially heavy current through the VSR.

The best solution for you is the Argofet, IMO. It will never allow current to be drawn from the engine battery. Installation is simple. If the alternator doesn't charge because it doesn't energise just connect the sense wire.
 
Thanks for your input Paul, sounds like another blue box will be on the list, I’ve a 2GM20 and not sure if the alternator has a b+ stud, cannot recall seeing one, if not do you have a normal place you would connect to without going to the key panel, basic without rev counter? Also the Argofet has connection for 3 battery’s, do I just use 1 for starter and the second for house and leave the 3rd not connected
 
PaulRainbow said:
It is not a good idea.

With the engine running, or any other thing that will cause the VSR to close) the engine battery will be in parallel to the domestic battery (obviously), operate the inverter and it will try and draw a potentially heavy current through the VSR.

The best solution for you is the Argofet, IMO. It will never allow current to be drawn from the engine battery. Installation is simple. If the alternator doesn't charge because it doesn't energise just connect the sense wire.
Click to expand...

The suggested relay will not cause any problems of this nature if they do not already exist, but it will allow the OP to make use of the "trickle charge " output from the Multi-Plus.

The VSR is protected from any harm from "a potentially heavy current" by the recommended fuse.

If there is already a problem the OP will surely have noticed a tendency for the fuse to blow if the inverter is used with the engine running.
That's another kettle of fish to which the the best solution is probably an Argofet as I suggested in #2.
 
VicS said:
The suggested relay will not cause any problems of this nature if they do not already exist, but it will allow the OP to make use of the "trickle charge " output from the Multi-Plus.

The VSR is protected from any harm from "a potentially heavy current" by the recommended fuse.

If there is already a problem the OP will surely have noticed a tendency for the fuse to blow if the inverter is used with the engine running.
That's another kettle of fish to which the the best solution is probably an Argofet as I suggested in #2.
Click to expand...

The OP currently has a 500w inverter, that's 50a at full working capacity, the VSR and its fuse should be ok with that. Perhaps the inverter can handle a greater output for a short time, 100a max, if that, the VSR still should be OK.

The Victron Multiplus 1600 will draw 160a at max load and has a peak output of 3000w, which will be 300a.

Designing a system where anytime the inverter is used with the engine running a fuse blows doesn't seem like a good arrangement to me.
 
Daverw said:
Thanks for your input Paul, sounds like another blue box will be on the list, I’ve a 2GM20 and not sure if the alternator has a b+ stud, cannot recall seeing one, if not do you have a normal place you would connect to without going to the key panel, basic without rev counter? Also the Argofet has connection for 3 battery’s, do I just use 1 for starter and the second for house and leave the 3rd not connected
Click to expand...

The Argofet 100-2 only has 2 battery connections and is cheaper the the 100-3.

The alternator will have a B+ terminal, that's where you connect the input to the Argofet. The outputs then go to the batteries or the battery terminals of the isolator switches, whichever is more convenient. If needed, the energise terminal needs a 12V positive connection that is only live when the "ignition" is on, i think on your engine that'll be the panel.
 
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