Uninsurable moorings

[oldbilbo]

Researching some of the insurance companies' websites, I noticed that CraftInsure decline to cover vessels moored in the following harbours....

The craft's permanent (home) mooring is NOT at one of the following:
Aberaeron, Aberdovey, Abersoch, Anglesey (Ex. Beaumaris), Ardglass, Arisaig, Axmouth, Ballyholme Bay, Bangor, Barmouth, Blakeney, Boscastle, Bridlington, Brixham (Outer Harbour), Bude, Burnham on Sea, Carnlough Harbour, Chan Isles, Cowes, Cultra, Dale, Eire, Fishguard, Gallanach, Harwich, Herne Bay, Hoylake, Hunters Quay, Hythe, Ilfracombe, Ireland, Isle of Arran, Isle of Man, Isles of Scilly, Largs, Loch Ailort, Loch Hourn, Loch Nevis, Lyme Regis, Margate, Menai Straits, Minehead, Mousehole, Morston, Mumbles, Netley, New Quay, Newlyn, Penzance Outer Harbour, Portishead, Portland Harbour, Portrush, Red Bay, St Mawes, Seaview, Star Cross, Stone Point (River Blackwater), Swanage, Southend (east of pier), Watchet, Watermouth, West Kirby, Weston Super Mare, Whitby Lower Harbour, Whitstable, Yarmouth IOW (Outer Harbour).

I cannot say this is reflected in the claims experience of other UK insurers, but it is likely to reflect a reality - whether the topography of the haven... or the practices of local mooring contractors.

( I notice that Lake Windermere has been omitted - E&OE? )

 

[alahol2]

Ireland is a pretty big harbour.
Cowes and Yarmouth IOW???

 

[prv]

Do they really not cover them at all, or do they just want a higher premium? For example, my insurance contains a stipulation that the craft not be able to exceed 17 knots under power - but if you have a fast motorboat and pay them extra they will delete that line from the policy.

Pete

 

[prv]

Yarmouth IOW???

Note they say "outer harbour". This is the area outside the seawall, to the west of the pier, for half a mile or so down the coast. Basically where they put the summer visitors' trots. I'd consider that rather exposed for a home mooring.

Pete

 

[davidej]

Is this list places where they will decline cover if it is the 'home' mooring or would it refer to overnight stays for boats whose base is somewhere else?

Sorry if i haven't phrased that very elegantly

 

[Lucky Duck]

Is this list places where they will decline cover if it is the 'home' mooring or would it refer to overnight stays for boats whose base is somewhere else?

Sorry if i haven't phrased that very elegantly

From the op's extract;

The craft's permanent (home) mooring is NOT at one of the following:
Aberaeron, Aberdovey, Abersoch, Anglesey (Ex. Beaumaris), Ardglass, Arisaig, Axmouth, Ballyholme Bay, Bangor, Barmouth, Blakeney, Boscastle, Bridlington, Brixham (Outer Harbour), Bude, Burnham on Sea, Carnlough Harbour, Chan Isles, Cowes, Cultra, Dale, Eire, Fishguard, Gallanach, Harwich, Herne Bay, Hoylake, Hunters Quay, Hythe, Ilfracombe, Ireland, Isle of Arran, Isle of Man, Isles of Scilly, Largs, Loch Ailort, Loch Hourn, Loch Nevis, Lyme Regis, Margate, Menai Straits, Minehead, Mousehole, Morston, Mumbles, Netley, New Quay, Newlyn, Penzance Outer Harbour, Portishead, Portland Harbour, Portrush, Red Bay, St Mawes, Seaview, Star Cross, Stone Point (River Blackwater), Swanage, Southend (east of pier), Watchet, Watermouth, West Kirby, Weston Super Mare, Whitby Lower Harbour, Whitstable, Yarmouth IOW (Outer Harbour).

 

[Halo]

Seems a good reason to avoid "CraftInsure"

 

[jwilson]

Weird - several of the places mentioned are very sheltered: Watchet is a locked-in harbour, almost all moorings at Weston and Burnham are way up sheltered muddy rivers, 99% of the moorings in Portishead are in a locked dock. There are some places there where moorings are very exposed, ie Swanage, Scilly, Mumbles, etc., and I can understand insurers wanting higher premiums, but total refusal is odd.

 

[Searush]

Seems a good reason to avoid "CraftInsure"

I'd agree with that as it excludes all of Anglesey & Menai Straits except Beaumaris (which is both in Anglesey & the Menai Straits) and is also far more exposed than Penrhyn Dock, Port Dinorwig, Victoria Dock & Caernarfon, which are also in the Straits.

Who makes up these restrictions? I remember finding something once that forbade me to go more than 12 miles offshore! I had to pint out to them that I couldn't go to IoM or Ireland (both in the listed cruising area) without exceeding that limit. They simply deleted the clause.

Always worth argueing a logical case if it a daft exclusion.

 

[prv]

I remember finding something once that forbade me to go more than 12 miles offshore! I had to pint out to them that I couldn't go to IoM or Ireland (both in the listed cruising area) without exceeding that limit. They simply deleted the clause.

Mine lists all of the cruising areas in the wording, and your certificate says which applies to you. So although we have the full Brest to Elbe, I can also see what their wording for the 12 mile option would be. This says that you can go from one place in the 12 mile limit to another via a reasonable route, even if part of that route takes you outside of 12 miles.

I think a lot of this stuff is just stock phrases pegged together, and while somebody ought to proofread the result for places where they don't fit properly, clearly that isn't always done properly. Worth querying, as you say.

Pete

 

[alahol2]

Perhaps it's a list of places from which they've had claims.

 

[Giblets]

Certainly Seaview (IOW) is a tricky place to moor and be insured. Some years ago I asked my insurance co about the possibility of mooring my RIB off Seaview for a fortnight as we were staying there and they told me that it would not be covered whilst unattended. Seems that nare-do-wells and footpads pop over from the mainland under cover of darkness and "remove" said boats on a regular basis.

 

[oldbilbo]

Not a lot of thinking going on, I suspect....

Underwriters' agents ( and there are not so very many of 'em ) craft their restrictions based on a profile of the sorts of business they seek to attract and the sorts of risks they seek to reduce. It doesn't take much exercise of the muscle between the ears to realise there are other considerations making up 'claims experience' - extant or anticipated - besides exposure to wind and fetch.

Just one or two hefty claims with an element of lack of due diligence could be enough to put a relatively exposed moorings area into a 'decline' category. Just a handful of systematic thefts with damage could well do the same. Then there's the complex issue of moorings maintenance.... Some patches are simply better maintained than others, and that gets known to surveyors and claims adjusters.

Or there may just be an element of prejudice. Certainly each moorings area is NOT reviewed for risk profile each and every year, but I would have thought that harbours with on-site 24/7 security would score well. For example, the moorings on the River Tamar in sight of the grey funnel liners at Devonport Dockyard are patrolled relentlessly, by MoD Police ( Water ). They've been known to rescue yachts that have chewed through their mooring strops and saved a potentially-expensive claim. That's also the case, I understand, at Mylor. Not so 'Above The Saltash Bridge' or elsewhere in the Fal Estuary, for example.

But certainly it's always worth presenting a well-reasoned case.

 

[Stork_III]

Mine lists all of the cruising areas in the wording, and your certificate says which applies to you. So although we have the full Brest to Elbe, I can also see what their wording for the 12 mile option would be. This says that you can go from one place in the 12 mile limit to another via a reasonable route, even if part of that route takes you outside of 12 miles.

I think a lot of this stuff is just stock phrases pegged together, and while somebody ought to proofread the result for places where they don't fit properly, clearly that isn't always done properly. Worth querying, as you say.

Pete

I was insured with GJW for many years, with their standard Brest to Elbe cruising area. After having spent 5 summers in the inland waters of Netherlands, I discovered that that range did not afford cover once the boat passed through a sea lock. Cover was extended to European Inland waters at no cost when I asked them, but I now specifically request that cover. I believe some other insurers have similar lack of cover, worth checking if that is your cruising area.

 

[Tranona]

Underwriters' agents ( and there are not so very many of 'em ) craft their restrictions based on a profile of the sorts of business they seek to attract and the sorts of risks they seek to reduce. It doesn't take much exercise of the muscle between the ears to realise there are other considerations making up 'claims experience' - extant or anticipated - besides exposure to wind and fetch.


But certainly it's always worth presenting a well-reasoned case.

That's the nub of it. That insurer is at the lower end of the market and wants to attract only the low risk business. Having standard clauses and restrictions is one of the ways it (and other insurers) can offer insurance on line for "simple" risks. So if you, your boat and location fit the low risk profile, or you are an existing customer they don't ask too many questions that might require an underwriters decision. However, as many people have noted it does not mean the risk is uninsurable - you just need to ask for a quote for your specific requirements.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Some errors in that list - Watchet is a marina behind lock gates and there are no moorings there other than the marina. Portishead also is a large gated marina but in that case there are a small number of moorings just outside the lock gates.

 

[awol]

And it should be noted that part of the IoM and all of Eire are west of Brest if "UK waters and Elbe to Brest" defines your insured area.

 

[TrailerSailer]

I use them and have done for many years without a problem with various boats and in different mooring locations. I'm in Portland and it costs me an extra £10 pa to be on a mooring there. Ask and see what they will do for you.

 

[prv]

And it should be noted that part of the IoM and all of Eire are west of Brest if "UK waters and Elbe to Brest" defines your insured area.

"Brest to Elbe" is effectively just the convenient title for a standard cruising ground. It's actually defined in my policy mostly by lat and long, and does indeed cover all of Ireland. Brest is the southern limit rather than the western one.

Pete

 

[rob2]

Some years ago our club's moorings were blacklisted for new business by St Margeret's - and look what happened to them!

Rob.