UK sailing safety record

Conachair

Conachair

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Just out of interest, I've often been told that despite (or perhaps because of) there being no formal training requirement to sail a yacht in the UK, the saftey record here is actually much higher than in countries where training is compulsery. IE, we don't train but have fewer accidents. Is this just anecdotal or does anyone know of any data to substaniate this?
 
I believe the RYA keep very close tabs on the data across Europe in order to justify their approach in the UK.

Their web site is www.rya.org (as you'll probably already know). If you can't find what you want, you'll probably find an e-mail address to contact the relevant dept.
 
Paddy, don,t have any data on the subject, but have not seen any evidence, in counties where training is compulsory, that behaviour/conduct/safety afloat is any better than in the UK. One exception is Ireland where the use of life jackets is amazingly common.
However, in my own case, I did the YM after 20yrs sailing, and I unashamedly admit it was a valuable experience. Bill.
 
I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. It's not that we don't train, but that the ladder structure persuades more people to train to a higher standard than does the compulsory (but fairly low level) qualification in some other countries. Hence the RYA motto: Education, not Legislation.
 
There was an article in YM about five years ago that gave the statistics. It gave the details of deaths in each sport or activity.

Around that time the MCA published its list of deaths at sea for the year at a 100 plus and the RYA did its nut. Once the dozen that went down in a helicopter had been deducted, those that died of old age on a liner and those that jumped of Beachy Head and bounced into the sea, etc had been eliminated in came down to about 28 for boating.

This was significantly less than golf, rugby and horse riding.

Yachting deaths are rare. Expect a figure of around a dozen to two dozen per year. This compares to around 3,500 for driving and 30,000 for doctors mistakes.

Comparison with other countries reveals that the UK has a very low death rate for sailing.
I suggest a number of reasons;
One is the RNLI /Coastguard and the speed/quality of response around the coast which is also geared to responding to minor incidents to prevent them becoming major.
Secondly there is no formal boating license so a boat user tends to do what he/she feels they can cope with and not what the license says they can do.


The figures for 2006 are 124 Maritime deaths. MCA Press Release April 2006 Follow back for previous years - the figures are published on the MCA site each April.

To quote the definitions from the MCA;(site quoted above)
"Accident Maritime
Where the death has occurred as a direct consequence of maritime activity. These figures also include deaths occurring in areas of cliffs and beaches."

Once we remove from this total of 124; Divers, passengers on liners, fishermen, beach fishermen, cocklers, climbers falling off cliffs into the sea, etc, then the boating total is small.
Note also that small motor boats (i.e. under 18 foot), rowing boats, windsurfers and kayaks make up a few deaths.

So the final number attributed to sailing yachts of 20 to 50 foot LOA is about a dozen to two dozen per year.

It would appear that it is more dangerous to drive to your marina than to take your boat out.

To be totally safe, live on yacht, don't ride a horse, smoke heavily and drink heavily but never see a doctor, don't drive and never play golf, rugby or, suprisingly, badminton.
 
None of what you say is a comparison as such. And I dont see how you can compare without also knowing the number of boats and the mileages covered.

I might well be wrong but my guess would be that there are no comparable statistics to back up the RYA statement. Which in any case is problematical from two points of view .

The first is that far fewer mobo drivers than raggies do the RYA courses. The second is that only a small proportion of raggies do the practical courses to get their tickets. The large majority of claimed yachtmasters out there have only done the shorebased course which (valuable though it is) is not the complete thing.

So the argument the RYA tries to make is that UK style comprehensive training for a minority is better than less comprehensive training for all. A cynic would say their position is self interest.
 
Although I agree with you that this way of reading the statistic is flawed (the base line should be: how many deaths or serious injuries per user, per hour of activity), do we really need to know? I am gradually becoming fed up with the H&S stuff - professionally I chair an H&S committee, and I am pretty much of a stickler for rules and regulations where work is concerned, and where the general public is concerned. But why oh why should we legislate on a an activity we do out of free choice? And an activity in which our lives ARE at risk. I would legislate against the commericalisation of stuff that claim to make you live forever.... Still life jackets all the time and harnesses most of the time for kids and when a little rough....
 
It certainly is flawed, from a statistician's perspective. It isn't necessarily wrong.....

During the years I was Safety Officer for one of the sailing organisations, I discovered that much use was made of the RNLI's 'Records of Returns' - the brief documents that each Lifeboat Hon Sec makes to HQ after each 'shout' - which were then kept and analysed annually by Barclays Bank as a charitable assistance. When one explored the details of the 'categories' with the people who actually wrote the returns, one found huge discrepancies between what had actually happened and what HQ statisticians made of the documents.

For example, during a specific decade, there were - from memory - 11 'fatalities' and around 350 'rescues due to inversion', relating to multihulls. On detailed inspection, 9 of the deaths occurred from foreign boats where an RNLI vessel had been involved in recovery ( e.g. French yachts near Channel Isles ) and almost all the 'rescues due to inversion' were related to beach cats such as Hobies, Darts.

Nevertheless, the RYA and many journalists promulgated at high-level meetings and in print that 'multihulls were dangerous', with consequent effect on UK multihull boatbuilders - and they continued this line even after the facts, and the errors, had been pointed out.

The simple reality was that the RNLI's forms had never been designed for the uses to which they were put; Cox'ns and Hon Secs were always keen to get home after a long 'shout', the accuracy of HQ's form had a low priority, and the field for 'lives saved' usually was used even when no lives were actually at risk.

This is all very human, and much can uselessly be made of it. However, the fact that no clear comparisons with Continental figures means that 'they' cannot prove that our RYA's assertions of 'we're best' cannot be disproved, either. And after a while of circular arguments, it's time for lunch......


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Bill

Whatever the stats are, from any source, I'm sure you will agree that undoubtably the most dangerous part of sailing or powerboating is still the drive to the marina!
 
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use of lifeckets is legal requirement 8 or 4 miles cannot remember which
no bad thing

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Perfectly sensible, sadly I have too many bad habits, but I do try to put one on useing the dinghy and esp at night.
 
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The large majority of claimed yachtmasters out there have only done the shorebased course

[/ QUOTE ] Anyone claiming to be a yachtmaster who has done the shorebased course should have their knuckles severely rapped. There is absolutely NO YM 'title' bestowed.

A yachtmaster has done a minimum of 2,500 miles sailing (average 10,000) and been examined fairly strenuously over a continuous period of eight to twenty-four hours. Many of the people who do the shorebased course haven't ever taken charge of a boat in their lives.

- W
 
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Bill

Whatever the stats are, from any source, I'm sure you will agree that undoubtably the most dangerous part of sailing or powerboating is still the drive to the marina!

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I'm not even convinced by that. There are some 40 million cars (just a guess) in regular use in the UK, with some 8-10K miles driven on average (another guess). Now how many boats? Say 2-3 million? Doing an average mileage of 1k ish? I would expect a ratio in the order of 1:200 for boating deaths to motoring deaths, if the risks were similar (which they are not!!!) That's 12 sailing deaths to 2,400 in cars . . . .
 
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