UK Borders Agency

Twister_Ken said:
The project has just been abandoned at a cost of £12 billion
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That suggests that the framework delivered nothing, which isn't entirely fair.
Remaining phases have been canned, but NHSMail, Prescribing, Choose and Book, and the network upgrades have partially delivered.
Biggest disappointment is Patient Records, which I would agree has been a disaster.

As to the UKBA, everyone's focussing on the grey funnel line boats, but most of their enforcement work is trawling dodgy restaurants and building sites for illegals, people smugglers, drugs etc. which isn't a glamorous occupation. They get criticised by the hang em and floggem brigade every time an undesirable fails to be deported, and are then criticised by the left wing liberals every time a deportation succeeds.
 
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FlowerPower said:
That suggests that the framework delivered nothing, which isn't entirely fair.
Remaining phases have been canned, but NHSMail, Prescribing, Choose and Book, and the network upgrades have partially delivered.
Biggest disappointment is Patient Records, which I would agree has been a disaster.

As to the UKBA, everyone's focussing on the grey funnel line boats, but most of their enforcement work is trawling dodgy restaurants and building sites for illegals, people smugglers, drugs etc. which isn't a glamorous occupation. They get criticised by the hang em and floggem brigade every time an undesirable fails to be deported, and are then criticised by the left wing liberals every time a deportation succeeds.
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Tsch, tsch a balanced post, something rarely seen on a UKBA thread :)
 
Tidewaiter2 said:
Too right, Tim Bartlett must be spinning in his cockpit locker;)

BTW, he has been low profile lately????????????
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I see no point in commenting on things I know SFA about.
That's why I never do.
It's also why I am not particularly impressed by those who cannot support their opinions with facts, or who mistake personal abuse for reasoned argument.
 
timbartlett said:
I see no point in commenting on things I know SFA about.
That's why I never do.
It's also why I am not particularly impressed by those who cannot support their opinions with facts, or who mistake personal abuse for reasoned argument.
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"O wad some Power the gift tae gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An foolish notion: "

Guid New Year Tim
 
Welcome back, Tim

timbartlett said:
I see no point in commenting on things I know SFA about.
That's why I never do.
It's also why I am not particularly impressed by those who cannot support their opinions with facts, or who mistake personal abuse for reasoned argument.
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Re point/sentence one of your post-is that viewpoint re the 'balanced post' concept in particular, or Life and Foruii posts in general?:D

Re point/sentence two; now I have been accused of not suffering Fools gladly, but in posting on Foruii, does one not have to engage with all protagonists, at all levels??????:)

It's well proven that Bull**** baffles Brains, after all::cool:
one million politicos and civil servants cannot be wrong:)

Happy New Year, Tim
 
FlowerPower said:
As to the UKBA, everyone's focussing on the grey funnel line boats, but most of their enforcement work is trawling dodgy restaurants and building sites for illegals, people smugglers, drugs etc. which isn't a glamorous occupation.
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But thats the whole debate - is the money spent on the few big boats worth while or would it be more effective spent on expanding the other enforcement work.

FlowerPower said:
They get criticised by the hang em and floggem brigade every time an undesirable fails to be deported, and are then criticised by the left wing liberals every time a deportation succeeds.
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So what?
 
Tidewaiter2 said:
Re point/sentence one of your post-is that viewpoint re the 'balanced post' concept in particular, or Life and Foruii posts in general?:D

Re point/sentence two; now I have been accused of not suffering Fools gladly, but in posting on Foruii, does one not have to engage with all protagonists, at all levels??????:)

It's well proven that Bull**** baffles Brains, after all::cool:
one million politicos and civil servants cannot be wrong:)

Happy New Year, Tim
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QED !!

But assuming your post was intended to be serious:
1) You cannot "balance" fact with fiction or truth with lies. So if the available facts point overwhelmingly in one direction, I see no point in trying to pretend otherwise. No amount of opinion or argument will change the facts.
2) Why? If someone chooses not to present unambiguous facts or reasoned arguments, but resorts, instead, to personal abuse to support an untenable position, why should any of us bother to engage with them?
3) Can't they? Look up any of the (many) sites that deal with logical fallacies and you will find something like this: http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-popularity/ explaining exactly why the "appeal to popularity" is wrong
.
 
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Hmmm, it must be..

timbartlett said:
QED !!

But assuming your post was intended to be serious:
1) You cannot "balance" fact with fiction or truth with lies. So if the available facts point overwhelmingly in one direction, I see no point in trying to pretend otherwise. No amount of opinion or argument will change the facts.
2) Why? If someone chooses not to present unambiguous facts or reasoned arguments, but resorts, instead, to personal abuse to support an untenable position, why should any of us bother to engage with them?
3) Can't they? Look up any of the (many) sites that deal with logical fallacies and you will find something like this: http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-popularity/ explaining exactly why the "appeal to popularity" is wrong
.
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Tim, the little icons are a clue, this is the time of peace and goodwill to all person-kind.
1) I agree

2) Tend to agree 98%, but we must try to lead them to the light.

In my working life, I usually had no choice but to engage with such people at all levels of society, so less bothered by their intransigence in the face of truth and commonsense, or (not in the same league),even the Law of the Land.

I worked on the principle that I would be totally professional and polite to them, no matter what, and use the 'broken record' technique.
It usually drove them ballisitic- such is the fate of such obsessives.

3) Hmmmm, Caesar, Marcus Antonius, and all the subsequent power seeking demagogues obviously got it seriously wrong(getting killed in the Forum/falling on your sword/ your Bunker, etc).
 
ffiill said:
One of the worlds longest coastlines and did you say four patrol boats!
Once got boarded by customs and excise-sailing across the mouth of Morecambe Bay from Lightening Knoll just of Walney Island towards Fleetwood.
A beautiful summers day and my old 28 footer was rolling along with us sat out on the cockpit coaming when a sudden roar and a rib manned by four armed officers came along side and one boarded us-where had we come from-Peel Island and where were we going to.
Spent rest of week storm bound in Fleetwood Marina where we got the sniffer dog on board and noted several white vans obviously watching the marina.
As for Borders agency as we only have a border with Eire talk about a total misnomer.
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Armed .? I don't believe UKBA officers are armed?
 
Three years on- these were customs and excise circa 1996 and they all carried side arms which if you are after heroin or cocaine smugglers was probably a good idea!
 
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