UK Borders Agency

[ffiill]

Imagine you have just returned from the West Indies and entered British Territorial Waters at entrance to Irish Sea..
You get pulled over-"where have you come from"-just rounded the Lizard."Where are you heading?"-The Isle of Man.
Sorry but how does the UK Borders Agency Patrol boat work out that you have come from somewhere else assuming you get picked out in the first place from all the other tens of thousands of leisure yachts?
Most illegal immigrants come in the backs of lorries or on board ship as do most sucessful drug smugglers.
As for terrorists they arrive on legit. passports or are home grown.
In my opinion the UK Borders Agency is a complete waste of time and money as is aircraft security because if someone wants to get into this country and or carry out some illegal /terrorist activity they will do just that.
People got through the Berlin Wall and that was a secure physical border!

 

[westernman]

...

Most illegal immigrants come in the backs of lorries or on board ship as do most sucessful drug smugglers.
As for terrorists they arrive on legit. passports or are home grown.
In my opinion the UK Borders Agency is a complete waste of time and money as is aircraft security because if someone wants to get into this country and or carry out some illegal /terrorist activity they will do just that.
People got through the Berlin Wall and that was a secure physical border!

No - they just get the Eurostar from Brussels.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...lle-loophole-to-get-in-to-UK-on-Eurostar.html

 

[rotrax]

Imagine you have just returned from the West Indies and entered British Territorial Waters at entrance to Irish Sea..
You get pulled over-"where have you come from"-just rounded the Lizard."Where are you heading?"-The Isle of Man.
Sorry but how does the UK Borders Agency Patrol boat work out that you have come from somewhere else assuming you get picked out in the first place from all the other tens of thousands of leisure yachts?
Most illegal immigrants come in the backs of lorries or on board ship as do most sucessful drug smugglers.
As for terrorists they arrive on legit. passports or are home grown.
In my opinion the UK Borders Agency is a complete waste of time and money as is aircraft security because if someone wants to get into this country and or carry out some illegal /terrorist activity they will do just that.
People got through the Berlin Wall and that was a secure physical border!

You must be a realist. What would be the situation without any border controls. Try some constructive comment-tell us what YOU would do instead,within the obviously tight budget. You may be correct about yachts,but as we are all aware they are a tiny proportion and unlikely to be used by terrorists/illegals,just dope smugglers. Which,of course is pretty serious.........

 

[westernman]

You must be a realist. What would be the situation without any border controls. Try some constructive comment-tell us what YOU would do instead,within the obviously tight budget. You may be correct about yachts,but as we are all aware they are a tiny proportion and unlikely to be used by terrorists/illegals,just dope smugglers. Which,of course is pretty serious.........

Just tell me why we bother when any one can get on a train from Brussels and arrive in the UK with no border controls.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-Eurostar.html

 

[GlennG]

In my opinion the UK Borders Agency is a complete waste of time and money as is aircraft security because if someone wants to get into this country and or carry out some illegal /terrorist activity they will do just that.

Hmm. So to conclude your argument, the police are also a waste of time as criminals still commit crimes; therefore laws are a waste of time as some people ignore them; locking my door at night is a complete waste of time...

I would like to point out that the growing consensus regarding the cause of last summer's riots was because the rioters thought that the police had given up and thus they were untouchable; a few hours later everyone was at it.

What you appear to be preaching here is anarchy.

Personally I'd rather show the bad guys that there's a strong *chance* that they're going to get caught and also impress upon them that we, as a nation, care about our borders.

 

[GlennG]

Just tell me why we bother when any one can get on a train from Brussels and arrive in the UK with no border controls.

Surely only a brave wrong-dooer -- or a very stupid one -- would choose to take that route. Especially as it's been so well publicised with a full investigation by the BBC amongst others.

 

[ffiill]

I feel very strongly that so called border security or for that matter airline security is just there so that politicians can say they have it.
Its a game-never forget there was airline security before 9/11.
By all means have a system but focus your attention where it is needed.
To pretend you can guard our coastline particularly where I live in the northwest highlands is patently rediculous.
I will never forget traveling on ferry from Dublin to Liverpool- the two Iranian students I was traveling with were hauled off into immigration-this was at the time of the Iranian Revolution BUT also when the IRA was active.
I am quite sure there were IRA terrorists traveling on that ferry with impunity because they were white caucasians.
When I visit my daughter I watch the jumbo jets going into reverse thrust over Kew Gardens and just think what would happen if a terrorist or for that matter a gangland kid started taking pot shots at it never mind a rocket propelled grenade!

 

[Woodlouse]

I feel very strongly that so called border security or for that matter airline security is just there so that politicians can say they have it.
Its a game-never forget there was airline security before 9/11.
By all means have a system but focus your attention where it is needed.
To pretend you can guard our coastline particularly where I live in the northwest highlands is patently rediculous.
I will never forget traveling on ferry from Dublin to Liverpool- the two Iranian students I was traveling with were hauled off into immigration-this was at the time of the Iranian Revolution BUT also when the IRA was active.
I am quite sure there were IRA terrorists traveling on that ferry with impunity because they were white caucasians.
When I visit my daughter I watch the jumbo jets going into reverse thrust over Kew Gardens and just think what would happen if a terrorist or for that matter a gangland kid started taking pot shots at it never mind a rocket propelled grenade!

Airline security on internal flights in the USA was barely more than a joke before 9/11.


As for your experience on the ferry, I would have thought most dangerous players in the IRA were known to the security forces at the time and would have been picked up by immigration should they decide to go to England. Two Iranians on the ferry would have been something out of the ordinary and with Iran causing problems at the time it would have been rather slack of immigration to just wave them through without asking who they were and why they were here.


The UKBA are not pretending to guard our coastlines. That is the Navy's job. They are there to prevent and deter smugglers of both substances and people from using every harbour and beach as drop of points for their activity. Like it or not boats are used to bring in untold quantities of drugs and the boats and crews are needed should a boat need to be dealt with at sea. When they are not operating on intelligence led operations then they make them selves busy with random stop and search activities that will deter some opportunists from smuggling should they feel that there was absolutely no risk of getting caught.

 

[BERT T]

So would people here prefer that the UKBA boats and men remained in port and sat on their hands all day until they had concrete proof of a misdemeanor? Or would you prefer that they spent their spare working time doing the only course of action available to dissuade people from smuggling etc which is the random stop and search?

Which would be the bigger waste of money?

I think the first option would be best. Think of all the fuel they would save.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

When they are not operating on intelligence led operations then they make them selves busy with random stop and search activities that will deter some opportunists from smuggling should they feel that there was absolutely no risk of getting caught.

4 or 5 boats on a coastline as long as ours - do you think there is any significant chance of them being caught be a random search? I dont.

The issue here isnt getting 100% security - you cant have that. Instead the debate is how to do the maximum security with the money available. And I dont think that running expensive boats is the way to achieve that. I reckon the boats are more about empire and "assets" in the minds of UKBO officials than they are about reality.

For the cost of running one of those relatively big ships you could have 200 officers in cars dotted around the coast. For that matter what about running 20 high powered speedboats rather than 4 or 5 mini frigates? With the area we have to cover, sheer numbers matter.

 

[Woodlouse]

4 or 5 boats on a coastline as long as ours - do you think there is any significant chance of them being caught be a random search? I dont.

The issue here isnt getting 100% security - you cant have that. Instead the debate is how to do the maximum security with the money available. And I dont think that running expensive boats is the way to achieve that. I reckon the boats are more about empire and "assets" in the minds of UKBO officials than they are about reality.

For the cost of running one of those relatively big ships you could have 200 officers in cars dotted around the coast. For that matter what about running 20 high powered speedboats rather than 4 or 5 mini frigates? With the area we have to cover, sheer numbers matter.

You could have 200 officers in cars, but you need to be able to intercept at sea. 20 high powered speedboats would be limited in endurance and wouldn't be able to operate in bad weather effectively. Nobody is saying that you can stop smuggling with only 5 boats, and every one agrees that almost all drug busts are intelligence led. However random stop and searches must dissuade a few from trying who might be tempted to have a go if there was absolutely no risk of being stopped and searched before you land. They also give the crews practice for when they are on real operations.

 

[ukmctc]

Yet another grossly expensive, ineffectual and oppressive 'police force'... at a time when real police and their resources are being cut.

I am opposed to this unnecessary and unwanted paramilitary force imposed on us and will henceforth refuse to co-operate with them in any way whatsoever - even to the extent of ignoring anything they do and say, and answering no questions.

If everyone of us refused all co-operation, totally, they'd soon be redeployed or wound up. They can't arrest us all....

'We shall overcome...'

The more the merrier, I met them up in Shetland this year and also Orkney, a fantastic service, give them more money, allow them to POLICE the seaways around UK and give them MORE POWER.

Why is it that the "great unwashed", or the "Greenies" surviving on "daddys" cash pretending to be roughing it in todays world want to stop these things.
Lets get back to Police having more power, UKBA having real power, make jails uncomfortable (no TV, no vote, only bread and watwer), get rid of social workers, make people work for a living, no dole, no social security, tax booze and phags more!
Lets get back to being British.

And for those who don't like it, well go live in another country.....see how they like it there.

 

[Searush]

The more the merrier, I met them up in Shetland this year and also Orkney, a fantastic service, give them more money, allow them to POLICE the seaways around UK and give them MORE POWER.

Why is it that the "great unwashed", or the "Greenies" surviving on "daddys" cash pretending to be roughing it in todays world want to stop these things.
Lets get back to Police having more power, UKBA having real power, make jails uncomfortable (no TV, no vote, only bread and watwer), get rid of social workers, make people work for a living, no dole, no social security, tax booze and phags more!
Lets get back to being British.

And for those who don't like it, well go live in another country.....see how they like it there.

Nah, that's not "British", it's American. And you could move to Detroit to see how it works too. You appear to have a strangely distorted view of the world.

 

[prv]

Nah, that's not "British", it's American. And you could move to Detroit to see how it works too. You appear to have a strangely distorted view of the world.

+1

There's a lot about the current implementation of law and order that I think is wrong, but swinging towards some kind of quasi martial law isn't the answer.

Pete

 

[Bobobolinsky]

Stopping caucasian boaters is just the government saying "We are not Rascist" Lets face it we have a problem with Asian terrorism. To target asians, would be rascist. Therefore the government needs a homosexual's wife and we're it.
If they really meant it there would be zero tolerance. If an illegal, export to country of origin, no three year cockups, if they get a lead injection on the tarmac, it will deter others. It should not be our problem.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I'm all for stopping the scroats on their drug runs etc..

I just wish Boarder Agency could be taught how to board a sailboat in a more boaty manner when practising on the regular yochtie.

TV last week showed them boarding a yacht. The first thing they do is come alongside close to the cockpit presumably to give them an operational advantage over crew on a yacht.
However, by doing this they then had to heave themselves onboard using the yachts safety guard wires causing tremendous strain on the stanchions.

 

[rotrax]

Just tell me why we bother when any one can get on a train from Brussels and arrive in the UK with no border controls.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-Eurostar.html

I believe that to be untrue. As a previous poster said you can buy a ticket to Lille and stay on the train to London. The authorities are aware of that and take precautions to collect infringers,as they should. Try being constructive and suggest what YOU would do to keep our borders secure within the budget limitations and treaties we are obliged to honour. That is after all the intention of my previous post. A motorcycle racing freind of mine is a Senior Customs man. He has travelled across Europe with me many times and we have discussed at length how the changes in border controls will affect the duties of a customs officer and the service. It is all about technology. 45 tickets to Lille, only 44 get off. Not difficult to work out that one passenger has stayed on the train is it. It is always easy to criticise and be destructive. We all have an interest in keeping our borders secure so let us have some sensible ideas to make the security better.

 

[GlennG]

Why is it that the "great unwashed", or the "Greenies" surviving on "daddys" cash pretending to be roughing it in todays world want to stop these things.
Lets get back to Police having more power, UKBA having real power, make jails uncomfortable (no TV, no vote, only bread and watwer), get rid of social workers, make people work for a living, no dole, no social security, tax booze and phags more!
Lets get back to being British.

Is that you Jeremy Clarkson?

 

[westernman]

I believe that to be untrue. As a previous poster said you can buy a ticket to Lille and stay on the train to London. The authorities are aware of that and take precautions to collect infringers,as they should. Try being constructive and suggest what YOU would do to keep our borders secure within the budget limitations and treaties we are obliged to honour. That is after all the intention of my previous post. A motorcycle racing freind of mine is a Senior Customs man. He has travelled across Europe with me many times and we have discussed at length how the changes in border controls will affect the duties of a customs officer and the service. It is all about technology. 45 tickets to Lille, only 44 get off. Not difficult to work out that one passenger has stayed on the train is it. It is always easy to criticise and be destructive. We all have an interest in keeping our borders secure so let us have some sensible ideas to make the security better.

They don't count how many get off in Lille. They don't have the technology to do it.

 

[DaveS]

They don't count how many get off in Lille. They don't have the technology to do it.

I'm sure they do.

For a few pounds you can buy a wee metal device called a hand tally. Standing in a position giving a clear view of the platform exit you click the tally once for every exiting passenger. After counting them all you transmit the result to your pall on the train using a thing called a "mobile phone". Damned clever stuff this technology...