Tying up to the shrouds - is it acceptable?

[MissFitz]

I've been on quite a few fairly big boats where, in the absence of midships cleats, people tie springs to the bottom of the shrouds. However, when I did this the other day on my small boat (Sonata), an experienced sailing friend had conniptions and said I'd cause irreparable damage to my rig. I've carried on doing it anyway but would be interested to hear if anyone had views on this - particularly as it would be really handy when mooring to be able to use a line from the shrouds to stop the boat (as per previous post, I have no reverse gear).

 

[RichardS]

The shroud plates are not designed to take stress in a horizontal direction so it's presumably not the best idea if strong winds / waves / currents are expected. I can't see that it would be a problem for a lunchtime or overnight berth in settled weather but I wouldn't want to leave the boat permanently berthed like that.

Richard

 

[lw395]

Tying to the chain plate is probably OK, but pulling the shrouds out of line would be a very bad idea IMHO.
The risk is that a line around the chain plate will ride up around the bottlescrew.

 

[aslabend]

if i'm coming into (or leaving ) a finger berth or pontoon singlehanded I'll often tie a rope onto the shroud eye that comes out the deck (as opposed to the bottle screw) as a mid ship line. Usually it's unused as i can hop off and get the bow and stern line on but sometimes (when wind and tide are working against me) I've used it but I try not to put too much strain on it. If your boats small enough not to have mid ship cleats, it's probably light enough to manhandle most of the time and when you do need a midship line, as long as you are respectfull, it'll probably not do too much harm attached to a shroud mounting point.
This is of course my honest opinion but I wait for the opposing forces to give reasons otherwise.

 

[macd]

If your boats small enough not to have mid ship cleats, it's probably light enough to manhandle...

I see plenty of 60-footers with no midship cleats. Our 43-footer, when we bought her, had Micky Mouse apologies for midship cleats.
It's not complicated: if you need 'em, fit 'em.

 

[dave_gibsea]

We always tie springs to to the u-bolts which are on the deck. Can't see that would cause any real problems if alongside a pontoon or another yacht. Bad idea to tie to the shrouds themselves

 

[Topcat47]

I have no room for a midships cleat and when I bought a removable one for the genoa track, it lasted less than a season. I suppose it's possible that someone nicked it as there was no sign of track damage, but I think a failure of some nature was more probable. For coming alongside when single handed, I attach a short line to the base of a stanchion to act as a temporary "cleat", nip ashore to fix the bow and stern lines, then sort out springs before removing the the short line. It's not ideal but it does work.....

 

[Graham_Wright]

The shroud plates are not designed to take stress in a horizontal direction so it's presumably not the best idea if strong winds / waves / currents are expected. I can't see that it would be a problem for a lunchtime or overnight berth in settled weather but I wouldn't want to leave the boat permanently berthed like that.

Richard

How many of us use the shrouds to haul ourselves aboard?

 

[Topcat47]

I guess it depends on how high up the shroud you grip it. On my wee boat, I hold the shroud about 6' above the deck. The shroud don't stretch and the horizontal load is spread between the offside shrouds as the pull on the chainplates is no more than vertical.

 

[James_Calvert]

How many of us use the shrouds to haul ourselves aboard?

That's a different horizontal direction to the force from a spring.

The answer must be that it depends in part on the orientation of the shroud plates and how they are attached. Any possibility of bending a flat plate ought to be avoided.

 

[johnalison]

What people do to their own berths is their affair, but I would not be pleased if someone tied to my shrouds.This happened to us when we were on a drying hammerhead berth in Maylandsea. Someone, probably a fishing-boat, dried out alongside our then Mystere in our absence. We found that as well as the bottle-screw being bent the substantial U-ring had been pulled upwards and had stretched nearly half an inch. Amazingly, the fibreglass at this point suffered no damage and a replacement was installed.

I think that in low-stress situations, the OP's idea would be OK, but some alternative would be much better. We managed to cruise for nearly 30 years without a mid-cleat.

 

[steve yates]

if your sonata has sheet winches, you might find a bight over the winch will do the job just as well. Particularly if you keep the outboard in forward, low revs, as that should keep her bow in while you sort out your lines.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

This may be totally the wrong thing to do but I use a genoa sheet through the forward car to drop over a cleat whilst I sort out the lines. I make sure I'm stopped so not to put and unnecessary load on it, it's only there to stop the boat from moving away whilst I step off with the bow and stern lines.

 

[LittleSister]

midship cleats. . . .
It's not complicated: if you need 'em, fit 'em.

Can be difficult space-wise on a small boat.

 

[[70521]]

How many of us use the shrouds to haul ourselves aboard?

True, but how many of us are 3 tonnes moving at 3 knots going in a different direction that are designed to take the load? The forces involved are quite different

 

[macd]

How many of us use the shrouds to haul ourselves aboard?

How many of us weigh several tons?

 

[LittleSister]

How many of us weigh several tons?

It's not polite to ask!

 

[JumbleDuck]

I've been on quite a few fairly big boats where, in the absence of midships cleats, people tie springs to the bottom of the shrouds. However, when I did this the other day on my small boat (Sonata), an experienced sailing friend had conniptions and said I'd cause irreparable damage to my rig. I've carried on doing it anyway but would be interested to hear if anyone had views on this - particularly as it would be really handy when mooring to be able to use a line from the shrouds to stop the boat (as per previous post, I have no reverse gear).

As others have said, what are your chainplates like. On my Jousters - same sort of size as a Sonata - I had nice big U-bolts with hefty backing plates, and one of which could easily have been used to lift the boat. I wouldn't have worried about tying on to them.

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

How many of us use the shrouds to haul ourselves aboard?

That's a different horizontal direction to the force from a spring.

The answer must be that it depends in part on the orientation of the shroud plates and how they are attached. Any possibility of bending a flat plate ought to be avoided.

True, but how many of us are 3 tonnes moving at 3 knots going in a different direction that are designed to take the load? The forces involved are quite different

How many of us weigh several tons?

Right you lot.
Firstly: Swinging aboard using a shroud will pull it (sideways) in all directions, so it WILL pull the same way as a spring.
Next up. Moment of (err, thingy... err) action: A spring tied to the very foot of a shroud will most likely not have anywhere near the effect of a lummox dangling form a point foot or 2 higher up. Your bulk will have approx 50:1 or even 100:1 over a line at the base. As such the tension in the shroud will rocket.

 

[James_Calvert]

Right you lot.
Firstly: Swinging aboard using a shroud will pull it (sideways) in all directions, so it WILL pull the same way as a spring.
Next up. Moment of (err, thingy... err) action: A spring tied to the very foot of a shroud will most likely not have anywhere near the effect of a lummox dangling form a point foot or 2 higher up. Your bulk will have approx 50:1 or even 100:1 over a line at the base. As such the tension in the shroud will rocket.

I'd like to see your method of swinging on board by the shrouds!

Not convinced by your other points either. I'll get back later...