Two wheels...

TiggerToo

TiggerToo

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Dyflin's hilariously sweet photo reminded me to ask here:
Am I the only one to think that the current trend of two wheeled cruisers is a silly fad, designed by Lewmar and Co to sell more kit? What about KISS? It seems to me they are just a recipe to increase the number of things which will go wrong in time....
 
I think they are a sensible design feature, when fitted to a boat that is wide enough aft to require them. When sailing to windward you want to be able to sit outboard to see the telltales on the jib. Once a boat gets large enough, a single wheel would either be unmanageable or would not permit sitting out.
They also have the nice feature of clear access to the stern platform on a sugar scoop design.
Finally, they do provide a level of redundancy on some aspects of the steering system. Minor point to be sure, but it exists nonetheless.
If you don't like them, don't buy one, but they do have their place.
 
TiggerToo said:
Dyflin's hilariously sweet photo reminded me to ask here:
Am I the only one to think that the current trend of two wheeled cruisers is a silly fad, designed by Lewmar and Co to sell more kit?
Click to expand...
I would have agreed with you, up till we chartered a twin wheel boat in the Med. Having a clear run from the cockpit to the stern was lovely at anchor when managing 3 kids in and out the water - plenty room to get them in and out without constant clambering round the wheel. Sailing it wasn't much difference - and in some cases in and out of harbour it was a bind when the throttle control was on the opposite side from where you wanted to be when mooring up, but otherwise it was a success.
 
I like to be able to sit against the lifelines and steer, this means a big wheel. Two standard size wheels is probably easier and does not need a slot in the cockpit/deck like on some half tonners etc.
What I really dislike is small wheels that force you to steer from behind them all the time.
 
When sailing to windward you want to be able to sit outboard to see the telltales on the jib
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:confused:

The better helmspeeps I've tripped over, in my long years before the mast, made a point of helming from leeward, precisely to watch the jib telltales, etc.

Or it could perhaps be 'cos they were cigarette smokers....

As for twin wheels, I'd always heard them described - on catamarans - as 'His and Hers', even when the pair of skippers weren't wed, but the likes of Sir RKJ and Sir Peter Blake on 'Enza'.....

enza-julesverne_1994.jpg



:)


( and before anyone jumps in to say 'There's only one wheel', peeps mustn't forget the 'OMiGawd' wheel in the dunnie :D )
 
bilbobaggins said:
:confused:

The better helmspeeps I've tripped over, in my long years before the mast, made a point of helming from leeward, precisely to watch the jib telltales, etc.
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:confused: Where did I say whether they helmed from windward or leeward? I said outboard. The point applies equally, regardless of which side you want to drive from.
Having said that, the better helmspeeps I've raced with and against tended to helm - when sailing to windward - from windward side except in light wind. I suspect you will see, if you review the video from the last America's Cup, most helmsmen made a point of driving from the high side. And switching at every tack.
 
bilbobaggins said:
:confused:

The better helmspeeps I've tripped over, in my long years before the mast, made a point of helming from leeward, precisely to watch the jib telltales, etc.


I'd challenge you on that as my experience, it was always the 2nd rate helms who sat to leeward. Why....

Sitting to leeward, the helm cannot see what is going on around the boat, can't see what gusts are coming in, can't see what's happening to the opposition, is sitting in the disturbed flow from the rig etc etc and also means that the helm's weight is in the wrong place.

however.........
In old (early 80's older) keelboats, the wheel was so small in diameter and the stern narrower that you couldn't see the luff of the genoa or see beyond the crew sitting on the rail so there was a certain rationale to sitting to leeward rather than directly behind a small wheel.

Going back to double wheels, I first remember seeing double wheels on the 12m's ('83 or earlier) and they were used specifically to give the helm a better view of both the boat/rig and of the area to windward. The helm always sitting to windward.
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Begging to disagree, Mr Garden Shed, a racing helm's job is to steer the boat where he (or she) is told a) by the telltales, and b) by the navigator and c) by the tactician. Last thing you want is helmsman trying to do other people's jobs. My 'owner' steered from leeward when going upwind, and we accumulated a fair few pots in Solent Points, RORC races and Swan Weeks. Of course, he had me telling him where to point the thing.:D
 
Twister_Ken said:
Begging to disagree, Mr Garden Shed, a racing helm's job is to steer the boat where he (or she) is told a) by the telltales, and b) by the navigator and c) by the tactician. Last thing you want is helmsman trying to do other people's jobs. My 'owner' steered from leeward when going upwind, and we accumulated a fair few pots in Solent Points, RORC races and Swan Weeks. Of course, he had me telling him where to point the thing.:D
Click to expand...

I drive from windward as soon as the boat is powered up. In the light I drive from leeward.
And we've won our fair share of pots lately too.....

I've never seen a helm at the sharp end of a good fleet helming from leeward when the crew are sat on the rail.
 
Yes a racing helm's job is to steer the boat, and no you don't want the helm trying to do all those jobs. However, for communication with the main trimmer and tactician/nav it is far better that they are sitting together on the weather rail.

The helm has to be able to see the telltales, and must be in constant dialogue with the main trimmer based on what he feels though the helm. Going upwind, the "steering" is as much from the main trimmer as it is form the helm moving the rudder (brake) about. This communication is a lot more difficult if the helm is to leeward.

The helm faces forward, legs inboard, and the tactician describes what is going on to weather. A quick turn of the head and the helm has the complete picture. Again, this is much more difficult if the helm is to leeward

Only in light airs when all the crew are to leeward, have I see it consistently successful to have the helm on the low side.

I've also picked up a fair few pots in the last 30+ years not just in the solent.

But hey, whatever works for you!

Getting back to the original post, all of this is much more easily accommodated with 2 wheels rather than one large diameter wheel in a trench. Better still, a tiller and the latest TP52's are all tiller steered. Too extreme for a cruiser/racer.
 
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