Two reefs / single line

[Dutch01527]

My boat has two reefing points in the main. It also has a single line reefing line rigged in the boom and back to the cockpit from the mast base. The single line runs to reef one only. There is no rigging for the second reef.

I would like to extend the single line system to enable me reef either the first or second reef. Any ideas?

Thoughts at the moment are run the single line to the second reefing points and accept a loose sail below that point if partially reefed or try and rig line to both reeling points by adding a bight to the line at the level of the first reefing point that could be pushed through and secured by a clip of some sort.

I am not looking for a perfect racing sail shape, just a way of safely reefing single handed with the minimum of fuss and foredeck time.

 

[Daverw]

I have the same and tried to rig the second reef as single line, the issue I found was too much rope at the cockpit when reefed, I then changed it to two line which works well.

 

[Dutch01527]

I have the same and tried to rig the second reef as single line, the issue I found was too much rope at the cockpit when reefed, I then changed it to two line which works well.

I agree that two line would be better but I would need new boom fittings, deck fittings and clutch. I am reluctant to do too much work for occasional use if I can avoid it.

 

[John the kiwi]

I agree that two line would be better but I would need new boom fittings, deck fittings and clutch. I am reluctant to do too much work for occasional use if I can avoid it.

Not an area you should economise on in my view, especially as the costs are not that great to start with.
A few deck fittings, a bit of rope and a clutch? It wont seem like much money when you are trying to make safety through an un-forecast storm.

When you need the first reef it is blowing hard and waves are getting bouncy and you need a simple cockpit based system that will reef the sail and most importantly leave you with a flat sail.
Ditto the Second reef times a thousand. Conditions have deteriorated, you are now a bit scared, waves are getting bigger and wind is shrieking in the rigging.
If your reef system doesn't deliver a flat sail as well as reducing the sail area then it may be worse than no reef at all. A small baggy sail can be worse than a larger taut flat sail.
It is important for safety that your reefing system can be operated in adverse conditions and that it delivers the result.
I have two reefs on my main sail. Both slab reefed and both effectively reduce and flatten the main.
I have only used the second reef a couple of times in several years, but grateful I was that the system worked well and was easy to use in adverse conditions.

Good luck

 

[Daverw]

I agree that two line would be better but I would need new boom fittings, deck fittings and clutch. I am reluctant to do too much work for occasional use if I can avoid it.

I used the fittings that we originally for the third reef on the basis that I would most likely either have drop the sail at that point or not be on the water. Used it a few times just to keep the boat moving and the crew happy. Just needed to add a small block at the mast to allow the line to lead straight down

 

[Dutch01527]

Thanks for the replies. I might have misunderstood John's point. Why would running the single line to the second reeling points not give a flat sail profile?

The only loose element would be below the reeling point if partially reefed, not elegant but not dangerous surely?

The reluctance to add a second line is not about money, it is about lack of space and simplicity. I already have nine lines running back to the cockpit ( 2 x halyard, self tacking jib sheet, topping lift, reeling line, 2 x self tacking jib heave to lines down haul and kicking strap). I am struggling for space and running out of colours to help me remember what does what.

 

[Daverw]

Option to change topping lift for boom strut and that leaves clutch and lines available

 

[Daydream believer]

I have the same and tried to rig the second reef as single line, the issue I found was too much rope at the cockpit when reefed, I then changed it to two line which works well.

I have seen this comment made by owners on a number of occasions & really cannot understand the reasoning behind it.
Do you ( & others) just let the line lay in a tangle on the cockpit floor, or coil it & hang the coils just behind the clutch or cleat? If one coils the ropes then it is just 3 or 4 extra coils & causes absolutely no problem whatsoever.

 

[Daydream believer]

The reluctance to add a second line is not about money, it is about lack of space and simplicity. I already have nine lines running back to the cockpit ( 2 x halyard, self tacking jib sheet, topping lift, reeling line, 2 x self tacking jib heave to lines down haul and kicking strap). I am struggling for space and running out of colours to help me remember what does what.

Should not be an issue . I have the option of 26 control lines to the cockpit( not used all at once of course)& do not mix them up

 

[Daydream believer]

Option to change topping lift for boom strut and that leaves clutch and lines available

This is how I cleat the topping lift with back up to the winch if I am doing a reef & do not want it to slip inadvertently in rough weather whilst reefing

 

[Daverw]

The issue I had with the extended line was that the 2nd reef points added at least 7 m of line to the 1 m already tailed. Finding somewhere tidy to put this when wind is blowing and things a little challenging on the cockpit room was the issue, assume this is the problem others have found. Not so much an issue with 1st reef as line a lot shorter

 

[bitbaltic]

Thanks for the replies. I might have misunderstood John's point. Why would running the single line to the second reeling points not give a flat sail profile?

The only loose element would be below the reeling point if partially reefed, not elegant but not dangerous surely?

The reluctance to add a second line is not about money, it is about lack of space and simplicity. I already have nine lines running back to the cockpit ( 2 x halyard, self tacking jib sheet, topping lift, reeling line, 2 x self tacking jib heave to lines down haul and kicking strap). I am struggling for space and running out of colours to help me remember what does what.

I would lose your "self tacker heaving to lines" and run a single-line second reef back and while you are doing it get a third reef fitted to the sail as slab and run back a pennant for that too.

I have hardly ever gone hove-to in the BC and never off Cardiff but I have used all 3 reefs on numerous occasions. Just saying!

 

[bitbaltic]

Finding somewhere tidy to put this when wind is blowing and things a little challenging on the cockpit room was the issue, assume this is the problem others have found.

Nice problem to have if it allows you to get a well set reef in quickly and safely.

 

[Dutch01527]

The "heave to" lines on the self tacking jib are not really there to heave to. They are there to use as part of a crash tack in a man over board situation. My technique is jam heave to line, crash tack, start engine, drop jib, centre main and hopefully pick up casualty.

The heave to lines are also used to give the self tacking jib a yank on the few occasions it sticks when under heavy load.

I think that I will rig the single line to the second reef and test it in a bit of a blow and decide if a second reefing line is necessary.

 

[bitbaltic]

The "heave to" lines on the self tacking jib are not really there to heave to. They are there to use as part of a crash tack in a man over board situation. My technique is crash tack, start engine, drop sails. They are also used to give the self tacking jib a yank on the few occasions it sticks when under heavy load.

If you can reef effectively you are much less likely to have a MOB in the first place. Get rid of the self tacker and the lines, then get the mainsail reefing performing properly, You will have a much better boat for it.

 

[Daydream believer]

. Get rid of the self tacker and the lines, .

Why say get rid of the self tacker?
Surely the fact that the car sticks is more a case of poor maintenance on running rigging than a fault of a self tacker

 

[Daydream believer]

The "heave to" lines on the self tacking jib are not really there to heave to. They are there to use as part of a crash tack in a man over board situation. My technique is crash tack, start engine, drop sails. They are also used to give the self tacking jib a yank on the few occasions it sticks when under heavy load.

If you want to back the jib with a self tacking jib just fix a snap shackle to a 100mm long line at the end of the track & hook the car to that when you want to stop the jib from tacking

 

[bitbaltic]

Why say get rid of the self tacker?
Surely the fact that the car sticks is more a case of poor maintenance on running rigging than a fault of a self tacker

Never been a fan of them, don't use ours. If the OP has sheet winches on the boat IMHO he would be better off learning to use them to get his sail tos et properly. Accept others have a different opinion though

To be honest sailing a boat around the BC with only 2 reef points, one reef line, and a tangle of at least 3 lines coming off the clew of the headsail does not sound promising to me. I think he would be better off getting a good, relaible, standard setup and learning how to make best use of it.

 

[Dutch01527]

Thanks to the people who made sensible and useful suggestions.

I spent the day sorting and testing the new reefing rig. I went with the following:

1) Rigged the single line reef to reefing point two. Line runs back to cockpit clutch / winch and is rigged to both fore and aft reefing eyes so that I can reef from the cockpit. I rigged the lines on the outside of the boom. The existing inboom line was in poor condition and had been spliced internally and could not be replaced without opening the boom ends. There is a fait bit of line when reefed but not really a problem, it tucks away easily under the spray hood.
2) Added a goose neck and reefing line for reef one. Reefing lines runs from aft to a existing cleat on the boom next to the mast. I will probably add a cleat at the aft end of the mast at some stage.

Test it today in c.15 knots. Works perfectly. Needs going to the mast for reef one but that is ok. It is comforting to know that if reef two is required it can all be done from the cockpit.

 

[Daverw]

Sounds like a good solution