two levels on tax on the same fuel..?

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Nickcf

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Anyone know the truth? I thought I had read that it was not legal to have the same fuel with two levels of tax which is why, originally, the arguement was made by the gov that taxing red at the lowest level required under EU law was not possible.

Now they seem to have done exactly that but at the highest tax rate?

Any legal experts out there?
 
Yes I know that the tax will be as for cars but cars do not use red. So this will leave red diesel as the only fuel (that I'm aware ) that will have two levels of tax - one for commercial users and another for non commercial. My understanding was that the reason the EU outlaws this approach is that it makes enforcement impossible as you cannot prove that the fuel in anyones tank is 'illegal' as you can currently with say, red diesel.
 
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Why use poor quality high in sulphur red derv when you can use white derv

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Because the marinas only sell red as they sell to commercials as well.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Why use poor quality high in sulphur red derv when you can use white derv

[/ QUOTE ]

High sulphur lubricates injector pumps better than low sulphur ,so better quality really
 
Hi Nickcf

You're right, you can't have two levels of tax on the same colour fuel - and this was the whole problem which has given us road prices for 'vehicles' (boats) that are very much off-road!

You can only have FULL tax or rebated 'commercial' tax. What you can't have is a SECOND level of tax for non-commercial boaters using the same colour fuel. So when the EU said 'whack on at least 21p for those private boaters' the UK said ' we can't do that, as we already have a top rate of 54p, so they'll have to pay that instead. Pity.'

Oh, by the way, private aircraft can still refuel at rebated prices, because they don't use roads either. (Their fuel has gone up by just 2ppl)

At PBO we've always campaigned hard to have that top rate dropped, because it was only set as a bench mark, and nothing pays the top rate anyway.

Why-oh-why the government can't say ' lets drop the top rate of red down to the EU tax, and call that the top rate instead'. There would be no outcry because no revenue would be lost, and the thriving mobo industry would be preserved. They are absolutely barmy.

I hope there is some mention of common sense in this budget, but I doubt it. OK, so they've harmonised all diesel in the UK, but why should boats pay road duty on red diesel at all? Absolutely nothing else does - and even farm vehicles can run about 12 miles on tarmac at 9ppl duty.

The solution is SO simple - yet no-one is making a fuss. Even the RYA, BMF and IWA are too busy back slapping their 'victory' over keeping the red diesel network to create a stink over the 50% price hike, and this acquiescence makes my blood boil. Motortboating is going to be badly hit for no reason, no gain to the treasury, a deterent to foreign visiting boats, when all they have to do is drop the top rate.

Madness.

Rant over.

Jake K
 
Jake,
Your rant was bang on the button.
I can't believe how pathetic we've been in accepted this situation. I'm as much to blame as anyone else as I did nothing apart from signing a daft petition.
We really do need an organisation that looks after motorboating interests, as the RYA attitude has been lame to say the least.

Can we do anything now, after the horse has been shown the open gate?
 
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Can we do anything now, after the horse has been shown the open gate?

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Whisper, looking forward to another get together should you come this way, or I travel over there, but to answer your question.
It's too late to do anything at all now. I've seen some ideas that others have come up with (Roger Rat, nice idea, but read on.) but the problem is that HMG has managed to do the one thing that the French government would love to do.
Divide and conquer
The motorboaters don't support the sail boaters.
The sail boaters don't support the motorboaters
The BOATERS don't support the haulage industry
The haulage industry don't support boaters
The agricultural industry don't support the boaters, because the boaters don't support the agricultural industry

You see where I'm going here ?.

Finally, the average motorist does not see any reason why they should support the average boater that pays less for his 'play' fuel, than they have to pay for the stuff when they need it to get to work, or shop, or whatever they use it for.
HMG has managed to split the country into little pockets that don't support each other, so they can do whatever they want.
If people really wanted to stop the price going up, they should have joined in with the fuel protests.
Yes, they may have lost earnings by taking time out to support it, but how much are they going to pay out now that road fuel has broken the £1 per litre barrier, and because nobody kicked up, it carried on going.
If people only think of themselves, they get what they deserve.
 
A few months back on this forum I predicted that marina fuel for private use could be as much as £1.50 per gallon this November. With another 2p per litre - that is 9p per gallon to be added this Wednesday, I now think that them price will exceed £1.50 per litre this November.

I paid £1.12p per litre today for derb for my car.

Next week it will probably pass £1.20 per litre.

Mr Brown has ended ten years of growth based on some very shaky foundations with government and the people borrowed to the hilt. Money has been squandered in many state sectors and the chickens are home to root - it will be interesting to see how the people rebel.
 
Well, it was said when Thatcher left power. That the country was set for growth, for at least 20 years. G Brown, Nu Labour, have squandered all that and left us with the sort of country we had back in the 70's, After the last labour fiasco. strikes. Massive taxes, and to cut it short, anyone that could get out, did so. It was called the brain drain at the time. Now, most any one that can is getting out.

It's a Rotten society from top to bottom, Riddled with politicians scratching each others backs.

No. You cant join in at the grass routes to make things better. I tried that.. If you dont fit in to jobs for the boys , or wanting a free handout and giving one to a mate. It's not going to happen.

Brother,in law, though I hate his existence. But I'll give him this.

He was borough engineer for Tees side A hell of an area. Boss of new bridges and roads. Anyway, underlings were doing that stuff.

Job became finding accommodation, for wives of counselors ( all on the dole) wanting better accommodation in Barbados, for the latest council meeting.

So he retired.

You will be very lucky to even get a council seat, less passed by the maviouvous.

Anyway i regess.

The people wont rebell, well not in the sence of the word, there will be more killings, knifing attacks, all sorts of things, but a bit disjointed. There will be more divorces as folk row about money. The kids, will still want the best trainers, even though basic food will be hard o find.

The revolution, will happen, but only when the rich get poor, which wil surely happen.

China and India rule the world now, jump to there tune. Either work, fook off or die. We dont really care

It's going to hit the pour first of course. Bed time sorry.
 
It really boils down to, "I'm alright Jack." /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

One of the reasons behind the lack of action was that it would be almost impossible to get public support for Mobos'.

Someone made the point on here last year when they said how some journalist would pick up the story with a headline that read, "NHS Nurse pays more for her fuel than Millionaire Playboy Boater!" Which of course would be true.

BUT it is so out of context there are so many of us that aren't millionaires and own comparatively modest boats, many struggle to pay their way and also afford a boat, forsaking annual holidays abroad and other luxuries that even lower paid members of the public expect and enjoy.

Even the wealthy wealthy, pay lots of tax, employ many staff with Nat. Insurance contributions etc. so owning a boat could well be seen as an incentive to grow a business, taxing fuel at this rate is fool hardy and will hurt many that are not in this 'privelaged few club.'

Any sort of protest is worth trying as sometimes they snowball but with two types of fuel and three levels of tax, the government have as you say divided the public so protests would only get support from a smaller sector at any one time. The Road fuel sector has to be the largest and I would happily support the hauliers in their actions or barricades.

Btw. I'm still going to be flying a "Diesel Rebel Flag" as my ensign on 'Houston' /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif to Mr. Brown and Europe.
 
Don't knock the RYA on this!

About ten years ago, when the letters pages of MBY and MBM were full of letters whingeing about how the RYA did nothing for motor boaters, the RYA put in a huge amount of effort to get the derogation extended.

AND IT WON! Thanks to the RYA, we had an extra five years of reasonably-priced red fuel.

A few years later, when the YBW forum was full of posts whingeing about how the RYA did nothing for motor boaters, the RYA put in a huge amount of effort to get the derogation extended.

And this time it failed -- but it still managed to get the government to give us one last year of fair pricing.
 
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