Two leisure batteries instead of one leisure + one cranking?

CaptainBob

CaptainBob

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www.yacht-forum.co.uk
My surveyor has informed me that the yacht I might buy has two 110 Ah leisure batteries onboard, and no engine cranking battery.

The vendor is saying that this is not a problem, and that they sell new boats with this same setup.

Is the vendor correct?

Also, both of these batteries have recently been completely flattened by being left on and running onboard systems. As they're leisure type batteries, is this actually not a problem?

Thank you!
 
Leaving batteries discharged for any length of time is a sure way to reduce their life, so you should adjust the purchase price to allow for replacing the batteries.

Lots of boats do indeed manage with no dedicated starting battery, but it's a much better arrangement to have a dedicated starting battery (which should ideally be a "cranking" battery rather than a "leisure" or "deep cycle" battery).
 
I'm against Leisure batterys as crankers - based on past experience of ruining one trying to start a car one day !
But I believe later batterys are not strictly Leisure batterys in the old meaning ... but more a compromise.

Maybe you can ask Vendor for some g'tee to suitability ? But probably being expendable items ........ lucky if anyone would agree.

It's interesting to note that depending on Name on battery - warranties often exclude various uses ... I had a Leisure battery not so long back that specifically excluded being used for cranking !

Why not improve matters by doubling the domestic bank by the two you have and adding a starter battery ?
 
No it is not correct to have no starting battery.

As for the leisure batteries, it is NEVER a good idea to flatten any battery as this will shorten it's life. there are some circumstances that do require batteries to be depleted, but this is not one of them.

Hope this helps.

Avagoodweekend......
 
leisure batteries are not designed for cranking engines they will not last that long if you use them in that way also i don't think they produce such a large amount of amps either. running them completely empty reduces there life too i think you are not meant to go below 11 volts. some one else will no doubt give you all the reasons why on a tecnical level.
 
I've never had a dedicated engine starting battery. I prefer two banks of deep cycle batteries both available to house duties or engine starting. I also like to have the ability to combine both banks for engine starting for those, fortunately rare, occasions when I've stupidly allowed both banks to become low.
 
I also have two 'leisure' batteries and no dedicated cranking battery. I rarely have a problem, I use one battery all day whilst sailing and motoring; when moored up I use the 2nd battery overnight and the next day; them go back to batt. All my last three boats had this system and for me it works OK. Batteries last about 5-6 years. I use standard lorry batteries, never run them flat and keep them fully charged over winter. However, I am thinking about fitting a dedicated starting battery this winter.
 
I'm another one who uses two leisure [or whatever] batteries and has no dedicated engine start battery. It depends upon the size of the boat and how many batteries you wish to accommodate. My Sadler 29 has a nicely recessed battery space and I prefer to use it for 180 a.h. of leisure battery capacity rather than, say, 110a.h. of leisure plus a dedicated starter battery. As long as your engine is a good starter I don't think that the leisure batteries suffer.
 
"I use standard lorry batteries,"

Lorry batteries are cranking batteries. Therefore I think you are saying you use 2 cranking batteries for starting and domestic. My undestanding of the question is whether you should use (properly defined) leisure batteries for starting and domestic or have a dedicated cranking battery for engine and separate domestic battery(ies) for general use?
Personally I have a cranking battery and one large domestic. I can still use collectively if I find the turnover speed isn't sufficient.
 
The batteries WILL have been damaged to a greater or lesser extent by being run flat. If there is no dedicated engine start battery then I wouldn't rely on them to start the engine. As another said, use this to fact to adjust the price to allow for replacement.

AFAIK, leisure batteries are just a compromise. They will deliver the current to start an angine, but will suffer a shortened service life. They can be used for deep cycle use, but service life will be less than true deep-cycle batteries. Leisure batteries are cheap, so I use them instead of the very expensive true deep-cycle batteries.

When I got our current boat, the set-up was similar to the one you describe, but I changed it so that all the existing batteries were used for "house" services and installed a dedicated RedFlash battery for engine starting. I can start the engine from the "house" bank using my "emergency parallel" switch. I have three seperate battery switches - house bank on/off, engine bank on/off and the emergency parallel switch. Either service can be supplied from either bank. You can see a diagram of my set-up on the Blue Sea Systems web site here:
http://bluesea.com/category/1/products/8370 and http://bluesea.com/files/resources/instructions/6619.pdf
 
I think we are getting away from the real point ..... two lorry batterys are basically HD crankers - I have a Merc. 814 Truck with Hydraulic tail lift ... which the batts are designed for as well.

The OP is saying he has 2 leisure batterys and no cranker battery. I don't think he's saying he needs to dedicate one to starting ... I think he's asking should he change one leisure to a CCA type ..............
 
Well I for one would not like to rely on the "service" batteries also for engine starting. I have one standard HD car battery and a pair of leisure batteries with 2 alternators on the engine, one charging the engine battery and the other charging the service batteries. I also have two small solar panels which trickle charge the batteries while moored. My very old 4107 starts easily now that starter motor and hot plug have been sorted but I want the engine to start on demand regardless of what load has been put on the service batteries. I normally dont use the engine for many hours per year but navigation instruments plus an old autopilot can draw down the service batteries over time when just sailing. For me the leisure or service batteries are there to keep the nice bits and pieces going, the starter battery is there for when you need it.
 
I have 2 batteries ... either can do domestic or starter. Suits me - but I don't do real long trips or live-aboard. But with limited engine use every so often I can go for a week no prob. With more use of engine of course that becomes academic.
 
My boat from new had 3 110ah leisure batteries, one of them dedicated to starting the engines. I believe the standard leisure battery is a jack of all trades and master of none. Is ok for both starting and domestic use and has a life cycle of a couple of hundred cycles.

A True deep cycle battery isn't designed to provide the burst of current required for engine starting but has a life cycle of thousands of cycles including being run flat. I've only ever seen leisure batteries on boats and never a dedicated 'normal' starting battery.
 
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My surveyor has informed me that the yacht I might buy has two 110 Ah leisure batteries onboard, and no engine cranking battery.


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Bob - you have had a lot of replies.

The point is: You have 2 batteries, which are described as leisure batteries. I would be happy with this as they are really car or truck batteries being marketed to boaters and caravaners. What is more important, is, Can the batteries be isolated from each other? There are 2 common methods.

1. A rotary switch which allows you to select power from Battery 1, 2 or both.

2. Each battery has its own isolation switch, and are connected to the boats charging system by a splitting diode. Each battery is dedicated either to domestic or engine. There may also be another switch which will allow you to connect the 2 batteries together.

You almost certainly will have one or the other. The surveyor was perhaps referring to the fact that both were ordinary batteries, and that one was not a deep cycle (for domestics).

As for sitting flat for a time,this may well have ruined the batteries depending on how long - so use this as a knock on price you pay - allow £120 per battery in negotiation.
 
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The point is: You have 2 batteries, which are described as leisure batteries. I would be happy with this as they are really car or truck batteries being marketed to boaters and caravaners...............

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Sorry but must disagree 100% with that statement. Lesiure batterys are NOT car / truck batterys as you put it. They are a compromise between Crankers and Deep Cycle. Go into any decent Caravan Shop and you will find the info.

The guy has a system on board, he's not asking to change the system - he's asking whether he should install a starter battery ..... IMHO the answer is a simple yes and no need for system changes etc.
 
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The point is: You have 2 batteries, which are described as leisure batteries. I would be happy with this as they are really car or truck batteries being marketed to boaters and caravaners...............

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Sorry but must disagree 100% with that statement. Leisure batteries are NOT car / truck batteries as you put it. They are a compromise between Cankers and Deep Cycle. Go into any decent Caravan Shop and you will find the info.

The guy has a system on board, he's not asking to change the system - he's asking whether he should install a starter battery ..... IMHO the answer is a simple yes and no need for system changes etc.

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Well, I am no expert, so bow to your superior knowledge, but I have used so called leisure batteries for the last 10 years at least on starting - Perkins 4236, so not a tiny engine - never had a problem of any sort. I think in the UK the term leisure battery may be used differently.
 
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The point is: You have 2 batteries, which are described as leisure batteries. I would be happy with this as they are really car or truck batteries being marketed to boaters and caravaners...............

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but must disagree 100% with that statement. Leisure batteries are NOT car / truck batteries as you put it. They are a compromise between Cankers and Deep Cycle. Go into any decent Caravan Shop and you will find the info.

The guy has a system on board, he's not asking to change the system - he's asking whether he should install a starter battery ..... IMHO the answer is a simple yes and no need for system changes etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I am no expert, so bow to your superior knowledge, but I have used so called leisure batteries for the last 10 years at least on starting - Perkins 4236, so not a tiny engine - never had a problem of any sort. I think in the UK the term leisure battery may be used differently.

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Regardless of my location in Baltic - I spend a lot of time in UK, I am a 'Brit', I caravanned a lot as well as boated in UK. Batterys were an important part of carvanning and boating. No-one is saying Leisure Battery will not start an engine - as I and others have said - they are compromise to cover both jobs - but neither brilliantly !!
 
If your leisure batteries will deliver enough amps to start your engine in all the coinditions you need it to (mine will), and you have a battery friendly charging system (I have) then I suspect you'll never have a problem (I don't). & you have lots of flexibility with a 1,2,both switch - which some people regard as an abomination for some reason.

I, of course, am free to experiment without risk, because on a skittery wee boat with a skittery wee engine I can hand crank it if the batteries fail. I have never done so in earnest as they never have failed.
 
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