Twistle Rig... 100% or 130%?

[Chalker]

Check this site for details.

He initially used a variety of stainless designs and eventually used a rope cruciform very succesfully

http://www.simetric.co.uk/twizzle_rig/equipment.htm

 

[KellysEye]

We have a twistle rig with stainles steel hinged cente rod, opened out flanges with a bar across each for the pole fittings and top and bottom rings for the uphaul and downhall. Maidsure supplied the fitting and the poles. Ours are 5oz Dacron and each one is 75% of the foretriangle area. The beauty of them is that you have an infinite option of sail size for any wind speed. They also noticeably cut down rolling because the poles don't push the sails and the sails don't push the mast. When I say noticeablly I mean that we used to have the main out with a preventer and poled genoa, the rolling is dreadful albeit you get used to it.

You can overlap the sail to go upwind and they don't rub together so no chafe. Go offwind a bit and they start to open.

One other thought you wil need two new poles and a fitting to store the poles, our fittings are on deck but you could put them on the stanchions. We couldn't find double pole fittings in any chandler so we got a quote from a marine stainless fabricator - £150. Thinking that was the usual marine rip off we went to see a commercial (restaurants etc) kitchen fabricator which use marine grade stainless -£75. Obviously you need to draw and size the fittings. To me the rope fitting is a bodge and I suspect the pole fittingss might touch.

If you need to know anything else please shout.

 

[LadyInBed]

For your info, what you are describing is a "blaster" sail, with poles, not a twissle rig, the twissle rig uses two sails on two forestays, allowing a gap, to allow the sails to work correctly as seperate wings, reducing roll. Sheet the main in hard to centre it and it will further reduce roll. The blaster works basically as a fore square sail.

What you describe for the twissle is how I use it, ideal for single handing. I read somewhere that it is the air gap between the sails that helps to prevent roll.
To have a sail made up expressly for the purpose would IMO be a waste, much better to use a sail that is already onboard. The rig will cope with higher wind speeds, especially if the genoa is a furler, and it is easier to deconstruct if / when a course change is required.

 

[firstascent2002]

For a long time I sailed one of these rigs on my Hustler 30. Cut to about 130 and in 6 oz cloth.

I did like it alot, particularly if the pair of flight poles were secured with an up haul / down haul arrangement and not to the mast (much better yaw reduction)

The problem was with chafe which meant that I had something to repair about every 6 to 8 hunderd miles...it was really not sustainable off shore so I changed.

Since then, I now have a Sluttler rig.

If you love the concept of a twissle tthe consider a slutter ... I really recomend it. Many of the OCC boats I know use it so it is ideal for long distance sailing.

Outer forestay with a 130% roller genoa.

Inner forestay set 12 inches inside with a 90% roller genoa.

Upwind.

The larger genoa can be furlled progressively as the wind increases and when the shape is no longer efficient it can be changed to the smaller one which can then also be reefed

Down wind, fly both together boomed out with the 90 to windward if the passage is not dead down wind.

The only real disadvantage comes when you have to short tack using the outer genoa...it has to be furlled and unfurled with each tack as it will never get through the slot.

Now off shore I would suggest that tacking is a daily event at most so it is no real problem.

If you want some pics then PM me...

J

 

[Frankie-H]

I am sorry to butt into your post without the nesessary experience of the Twistle rig. However I have many ocean miles of experience, have seen Twistle rigs and have discussed them with the owners.

The main problem IMHO is the lack of flexibility. You have to reef/furl them at the same time and they are difficult to lower individually. If you damage one, due to heavy conditions, you will probably have to have the other unrolled to lower the damaged sail.

OK now you can turn to another thread because I am going to explain my prefered rig to those, who may be interested.

I have fitted an inner forestay. This does not need backstay triangulation, as the top of the stay is close to the top of the mast. This stay is fitted with a pellican hook and backstay adjuster. The hook fixes to a through deck D ring, which picks up the bukhead aft of the chain locker. I had a sail made, which mirrors 2/3 of the Jenny and this is fitted with piston hanks onto the stay. Piston hanks onto a seperate stay to provide insurance incase the forestay or furling gear is damaged.

The inner or no2 is hoisted to leeward and poled out. The rolled Jenny is hoisted to windward and poled forward and out. The No2 is smaller then the Jenny and you can balance this rig by rolling and unrolling the Jenny. I have found that you can set this rig up to about 60% off the wind dead astern. You simply bring in one side and loosen the other. You can flatten the Jenny, if you need to and if you collapse one into the other by bringing the wind too far ahead, you simply trip the pole and have all the time in the world to sort the mess out.

You need an extra halliard, probably outside the mast. An extra pair of topping lift and downhaul for the second pole and 1 or 2, if you wish, extra sheets, with their turning blocks.

If you damage you standing gear, you still have a jib and inner forestay to hold up your mast.

Very sorry but the Twistle rig is too complicated and lacks flexibility.

Sorry to hi-jack your thread.

Further thought. You have no mainsail and no need to fear the jibe any more. Like a cloud lifting.

 

[KellysEye]

>The main problem IMHO is the lack of flexibility. You have to reef/furl them at the same time and they are difficult to lower individually. If you damage one, due to heavy conditions, you will probably have to have the other unrolled to lower the damaged sail.


Reefing and furling them at the same time is the whole point of a twistle rig, as I said the rig gives you infinite sail sizes appropriate to the wind strength. Most twistle rig sails are sewn with a single lufff so they are lowered at the same time. We changed ours to two luffs when we bought a new furling gear but since only one halyard raises them they go up and down together. If you damage one sail in heavy weather then the rig hasn't been reefed properly, the rig isn't the problem the skipper is.

 

[prv]

To me the rope fitting is a bodge and I suspect the pole fittingss might touch.

My understanding was that the inboard ends of his poles overlapped quite substantially - more than just touching. The chafing areas were then leathered to protect the poles themselves.

In one sense it's a bodge - a purpose-made fitting will certainly look more elegant. But in another sense it's eminently seamanlike - no special parts that can't be replaced if lost or broken, just rope which should be an abundant raw material on any well-found boat. The leather will eventually chafe through, but the sleeves could be rotated a few times to spread the wear, and then easily replaced with half an hour's cutting and sewing.

All that, and cheaper too

Pete

 

[Tiddy Oggy]

Barkla's Twistle

First off, it's a Twizzle rig, although it gets called other things too. 'Twizzle' will work better on a Google search.

Hugh Barkla, the British sailor and marine engineer who invented the rig and published his findings in Yachting World in the 1970s, named it the Twistle (short for twin-staysail) not the Twizzle.

Barkla was of the opinion that the twins are better set on a single forestay because double forestays would load the mast more severly and "leave an undesirable gap between the sails."

He later tested a Mark II version. "The one real change was the use of a twin-groove Leistay--opposed grooves, a less common form--so that, with twin halyards in spinnaker fashion, we could hoist and lower the staysails separately. In that way we could avoid the mass of canvas draped around as we hanked on the sails alternately."

 

[macd]

Hugh Barkla, the British sailor and marine engineer who invented the rig and published his findings in Yachting World in the 1970s, named it the Twistle (short for twin-staysail) not the Twizzle.

Barkla was of the opinion that the twins are better set on a single forestay because double forestays would load the mast more severly and "leave an undesirable gap between the sails."

He later tested a Mark II version. "The one real change was the use of a twin-groove Leistay--opposed grooves, a less common form--so that, with twin halyards in spinnaker fashion, we could hoist and lower the staysails separately. In that way we could avoid the mass of canvas draped around as we hanked on the sails alternately."

I demur to your take on the name. That said, the OP would find more relevant info if he Googled all forms of the name.

The problem with twin halyards, unless each has a fair lead (possible, but uncommon) is the threat of halyard wrap. On the other hand, of course, independent foresails are more versatile: a pair joined at the luff don't have much use beyond Twizzling. Sorry, Twistling.