Twisted anchor cable

[gunnarsilins]

This season I swapped my old 45 lbs CQR for a 27 kg Delta.

A very impressive anchor in it´s ability to dig in immideately!

But now my chain gets twisted!

This never happened with the old CQR, and the chain, bowroller and windlass have not been touched.

The twisting is so serious that after using the anchor about 4-5 times, next time only the first 15 metres or so of chain will freely feed out from the chain locker.
The rest of chain is so twisted around itself it won´t pass through the hawse pipe and somebody under deck must turn the pile of chain and slowly feed it out.

It seems that the 'ploughs' of the anchor itself might be slightly assymetric, because when retreiving the anchor it rotates quite fast when it passes through water.
But it´s hard to understand how this rotation can continue through the chain, over the bowroller and windlass. I cannot actually see it happen, but in the end the result speaks for itself.

I´ve been thinging of putting a svivelling link between chain and anchor but have doubts about it´s strength, and I remember some discussions about this here.

Any ideas or suggestion anyone?
The chain is 10 mm and my boat is a 42 ft/12 tons ketch

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[ccscott49]

use a swivel, they are strong enough, this will solve your problem instanatneously.

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[steve_cronin]

yes but get the best BRANDED one you can find. When searching for one in the Med. I found several cheap ones at around £25 but I opted for one made in italy with all sorts of certification like lloyds, veritas etc. Cost £83 and has a very secure locking system that can't be undone (but I still regularly check it) by the antics of the chain.

A charter manager tld me that he had lost an anchor recently due to a failure of one of the "off the rack" swivels.

Steve Cronin

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[Roberto]

<<locking system that can't be undone (but I still regularly check it) by the antics of the chain.>>

plus the additional peace of mind when leaving your boat unattended in an obscure port where greedy anchorless people hang around at night


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[burgundyben]

you migh want to get all the twists out of your chain once youve fitted a swivel in which case you could hoist it up the mast and let it hang so the twits can drop out.

<hr width=100% size=1>Sod the Healey - I think I'll buy an E-Type.

 

[steve_cronin]

So long as they don't have a 10mm Allen key in their pocket my anchor is safe!!

Steve Cronin

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[ccscott49]

Which twits would they be then?

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[vyv_cox]

This seems quite unusual. I've had Deltas for years now but never experienced this problem.

I have removed all swivels from my chain, as fitting one makes it impossible to rotate the anchor with the chain when recovering it. Sod's Law dictates that the anchor always hits the bow roller upside-down and turning it when a swivel is fitted can be quite a task.

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[steve_cronin]

Upside down recovery

With a plough, I find it much easier to park the hook the right way up for it it does come up "on it's back2 as soon as half the shank enters past the stemhead rocker it rotates itself into the correct position. I didn't used to do this before I fitted the swivel. I suppose that Deltas with their thicker shank can't be rotated once aboard?

Steve Cronin

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[gunnarsilins]

Hoisting chain in mast?

Hmm, mast is 16 metres, chain is 60.....

Would it not be better to drop it in 60 + metres of water?


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[gunnarsilins]

Upside down.

I can clearly see the anchor rotating - fast, when it approaches the surface.

Maybe that´s why the chap sold me it second-hand....

Anyway, I prefer the hassle of turning the anchor instead of having the chain twisted more or less to a solid bar.

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[charles_reed]

Re: In France

Nearly all boats have a full swivel between the end of the chain and the anchor, it's a massive affair with two "locked" fixing screws.

It's particularly essential on boats with a self-launching and stowing anchor.

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[vyv_cox]

Re: Upside down recovery

CQR do as you describe but, yes, you are correct, Delta does not. In fact it only just fits under the furling gear and I will need to make some modifications when I fit an electric windlass. Much too deep to rotate inside the jaws of the bow roller.

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[gunnarsilins]

Swivel strength

Any idea of what to look for in terms of safe working load/breaking strength?
Im not to keen in introducing a weak link!
Chain is 10 mm.

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[vyv_cox]

Re: Swivel strength

My new powered windlass arrived today. Instructions recommend a swivel between warp and anchor.

The problem with some swivels, as I have read, is that the type that attaches to the anchor via a pair of jaws and a clevis pin has no provision for lateral movement. If a pull comes onto the shank sideways, for example if the tide turns but turning of the anchor is prevented by something jammed against it, then the full force is applied in bending to the relatively small pin upon which the swivel rotates. I've no idea just how likely this scenario is: it has the sound of a theory that a devil's advocate came up with. However, worth bearing in mind if there is a choice of designs.

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[steve_cronin]

Re: Swivel strength

I use a horseshoe shackle in anticipation of this problem but if the swivel fits snugly onto the stock and swings in one plane freely the swivel will move before any sidethrust gets too severe. (If you see what I mean!)

Steve Cronin

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[LadyInBed]

I would have thought it would have been difficult, if not impossible for the chain to twist in the locker if it is stowed via a windlass gypsy, but obviously it can!
I have a Delta with a stainless swivel and it does rotate on its way up. As I motor forward and leave the anchor dragging in the water for a minute or two to clean it, the pressure of the water always turns the anchor to face the wrong way for stowing. When it is up close to the bow roller, I use a boat hook to turn it and control any swinging.


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[charles_reed]

Re: Swivel strength

The swivels are produced in various sizes according to the chain you are using - the main body for 10mm chain is about 55mm od and the swivel in the centre is about 12mm.
As the swivel is in the centre of two mating faces the forces are more likely to bend your anchor shank before approaching the falure point of the swivel - in facy I'd be more concerned about the pin through the chain failing before anything else (that can only be about 6.5 mm, unless you have an oversize link put in the end of your chain)

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[MainlySteam]

Re: In France

Quite an interesting discussion this. I will have a better look around but swivels in anchor chains would be very rare out here and I have never heard of people having twisting problems. I wonder what makes the difference?

We mostly use a 30kg CQR type self launching and stowing anchor (when I say that, for security on the foredeck one has to manually slide it forward about 125mm to tip it, but no manual action required for stowing) and we have never had a problem apart from the very rare occasion where the anchor is the wrong way around but always corrects by dropping it a few metres and retrieving again. We do anchor in places with strong gusty winds among hills which veer the boat around.

The only thought that comes to mind apart from anchor types is that perhaps heavier anchors are used out here which tend to pull the twist out of the chain during the hoist.

John

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