Twin Sails Bridge update

It was the bridge failiure back in the summer and the apparent lack of giving a damn that made me realise the futility of Cobbs.

The 2.00 O'clock had been cancelled, the 4.00 O'clock was cancelled and the 5 O'clock was cancelled and the next one was looking dodgy.

PHC said that berths were being prepared, we tied up to be told that we could stay one hour then we would have to leave.

Like everyone else we were phoning around trying to get a berth elsewhere, and like everyone else were told no.

A that point you have to start considering, what happens if they can't mend the bridge tonight? Where would we stay? Frankly I would have refused to leave the quay despite what the PHC said until the PHC opened the bridge to eliviate the problem, however, it does start you thinking about an additional bridge, twice the possibility for failiure etc

Hence why we are leaving albeit reluctantly Cobbs.
 
Poole Lift Bridges sequencing

I have just had an hour-long conversation with Dave Wilson, manager of Cobbs. He has categorically assured me that the first bridge in any sequence will open twice, so no boat will ever have to wait inside the holding tank.

This is a major development, as the sysytem referred to in the forum would never work, and I would leave Cobbs if it were in place! (along with a few others I suspect)

He also told me that the bridge operators are going to be on-site at the new bridge so will have visual on boat traffic build-up etc.

They also plan to start the second bridge lift as soon as the first touches down and traffic begins to flow. If they can speed up the time between touchdown and gates opening then the time in holding tank should be quite short. I asked Dave why the old bridge took so long to do this, ie masive delay between touch-down and barriers up and he did not know, but I am sure he will now ask the question..

The reason for the sequence change is to try and clear the bulk of outgoing traffic during the morning so as not to have a log-jam in the small area upstream of the old bridge. The reverse to apply PM where yu get a build-up on teh town quay.

I am in no way pro-lift bridges, I think the idea is utterly ridiculous, ill-thought-out, old-fashioned and short-sighted, but we are stuck with it so any good news like the above must be welcome.

So now if you're 5 mins late for the bridge, you only have 55 mins to wait instead of 1hr55!

Furthermore there will be no effect on boat traffic during 2011, the earliest dates suggested fore the lifting bridge to be operating are December 2011. Projects like these are almost always delayed...

I would like to see a 2400 hrs bridge as the 2300 is too early for the fireworks displays, Dave has intimated that now the council controls the times, rather than central goverment, a request might be possible. Anyone have any views on this??

Finally some other Cobbs good news, the Kids area IS going ahead in the old latrine block. Work has actually started and Dave hopes to open it at the AGM in March. We chatted about supervision, CCTV etc, all of this to be ironed out but sounds like it could be a great facility, with a TV, table football, possibly pool table...

FYI I am not an employee of MDL as this post might sound, just someone who wants to get real facts from the horses mouth and not make major decisions about where to berth my boat based on rumour and heresay.
Happy boating!
 
Thanks for that.

What will the bridge operators will do when outbound traffic fills the holding bay and there is a queue of boats stretching back towards Cobbs. Will they lift the OLD bridge whilst at the same time leaving the New bridge up - to allow the queue to clear.

OR

Tough, holding bay is full, NEW bridge is lowered and those that didn't get into the bay have an hour wait.

There are rumours about the reliabilty / shelf life of the OLD bridge . One can only wonder ( hope ! ) that with all these extra lifts its days might be numbered - problem solved !
 
Poole bridges, simultaneous lifting - 'aint goin to happen!

The road lobby is always far more powerful than any other, esp leisure, even more esp pleasure boaters who are perceived by the public, and government, as rich playboys (they obviously haven't seen our berthing fees!)

The whole purpose of the twin bridges is to maintain continuous road traffic flow. The emergency services have had a large say in this, as fire engines, ambulances etc have been delayed, and lives put at risk, and this is unnacceptable.

Yes, the operators have the option to open both bridges simultaneously, but I susect this will rarely, if ever, happen. It will be used only if there is a serious risk to maritime safety, not to make life easier or better for us boaties!

However, with the hourly opening I am hoping that we will not suffer the great log-jams of the past.

Furthermore if those who feel it is a race to get under the bridge and barge past waiting vessels to try and get to the front of the queue showed a bit more respect for their fellow boaters then the safety issue would be less likely to be a factor...

THE OLD BRIDGE
Poole web site says the old bridge will be out of action after first season of new bridge operation for 6 – 9 months because it needs because major repairs to link spans. In my opinioin, it is unlikley during this time they will allow hourly lifts on just one bridge so we would revert to the old system.

Furthermore, in my opinion, if, or perhaps when, the old bridge becomes completely irrepairable, we will revert to the old system permanently!

Yes, anyone with a half a brain would have worked this out and built a large flyover bridge that would never have to be closed, and that all boats could pass under.

This argument was, Dave tells me, put forward very strongly, going back as much as twenty years, and right up to the present day. A costing showed that the extra cost of such a bridge would be paid for in just 10 years of lift-bridge operation. As I said before, short-sighted, narrow minded planning.

It is sad that the council failed to recognise Poole's nautical history and heritage, being founded on maritime activities, and the worlds second largest natural harbour. But this is in my experience typical of town planners.

We are now sadly at a point-of-no-return with the twin sails bridge.

Ironic choice of name really, with such a strong nautical theme...
 
Poole Twin Sails Bridge Schedule - The lies

Well despite the assurances given to Dave Wilson (previous Cobbs manager) it was all lies and there is no third lift in the sequence..He was still adamant about this position up until December so what has changed and who made these assurances (aka lies)?

PHC and the council have lied from start to finish over this.

I went down on Friday and was planning a trip to Weymouth for the night and then on to Alderney. However the town was out celebrating the opening of the bridge so it was closed to marine traffic all day until 19.45. Cobbs (MDL) did not seem to know this...

So we went to Weymout the next day instead. On returning we finally realised how utterly **** the new system is. We passed into the holding pen at 9.45 then had to wait until 10.30 to get past the new bridge.

The floating buffers provided were OK as we were in zero wind and little tide and we were the only boat in there. But in high wind/tide and with lots of traffic it will be chaos. They are woefully inadequate. There are no cleats to tie off to. They are so narrow and bounce up and down so unpredictably that I expect there will be a serious accident within months.

Finally the hour approached and one mariner coming out of Cobbs called on VHF to ask which direction on this lift would have priority he was told to listen out for the tannoy!
CLearly they hadn't had time to toss the coin and make a decision.

When the barely audible tannoy sounded the message was a cryptic " Outgoing traffic will have priority" Well is that outgoing from Cobbs or outgoing from the pen? One would assume outgoing from Cobbs, right? Wrong. The green light went to us insiide the pen ,leaving all the boats queued up the other side to disperse/turn/disappear up their own bottoms or whatever they coud now do to make way for us. Imagine 50 or 60 boats trying to get past each other!

It was also strange to see cars and cyclists being turned away as the bridge is not yet open to traffic. Funny decisionto close it to marine traffic too?

The bridge now has 2 faults, it doesn't close properly, and it has a crack inteh tarmac surface, so look forward to more closures.

I think this will be the final nail in the coffin for poor old Cobbs if they can't find out who lied about the third lift and get it reinstated.
What a shame they didn't put up more of a fight.
 
strakeryrius said:
I've just had a letter from Dave Wilson the manager of CQ and who also sits on the bridge committee.

Apparently it has now been determined that once the new bridge is completed both bridges will be lifted hourly in sequence.

From 05:00 - 14:00 the new bridge will lift first, followed a few minutes later by the old bridge, thus allowing outgoing traffic to get out without delay.

From 15:00 - 23:00 the sequence will be reversed, with the old bridge lifting first, to allow incoming traffic minimal delay.

This all sounds pretty good, but leaves me wondering what provision there is going to be made for those poor souls coming in or going out at the "wrong" time. They'll have to wait the best part of an hour to be able to transit the second bridge, depending on which direction they are travelling. Will there be waiting pontoons? Or some other form of mooring so you don't have to sit for an hour with the engines running?
Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable to me.

You will not really be milling around waiting an hour to get out.

outer bridge opens first and lets all the traffic through. say 20 mins.

you then proceed to wait between the bridges another 20 mins.

that only gives you a 20 min wait for the outer bridge to open again, not an hour ! :)

Of course I'm far too impatient to wait at all, I will not bother to visit cobbs again.
 
I wondered how long it would take for something to come up about the bridge.

I went out both days from Cobbs, the new bridge lifted on time, we are allowed to go through on 3 red and yellow light into the holding area, then the 15 minute wait for the old bridge to open, you are not allowed through during the lift (we used to be before they changed the lights), so 2.5 minutes later the light change to green and off you go.
Now that does not sound too bad, however there were only 10 boats in perfect conditions, apart from slight tide but that was not a problem. When I came back in on both days I could due the very low tide go under the old bridge but the new bridge was left up so I don't have any experience of coming back in with both bridges

Now for the problems, the main one being the new traffic lights on the new bridge, there are 2 sets each side, the angle of view is very small, if you are not directly in line with them you don't have much chance of seeing them, you won't if the sun is on them they are not very bright. Also if you are 100m or closer to the bridge then you won't see them either. They are not the same type as the ones on the old bridge.

Finally if they resorted back to allowing boats through the old bridge on red/yellow that would be of great help.

Now all I have to do is put this together to send to the Harbour Master
 
You need to study the timetable. If you are going against the flow, eg tryring to get IN to Cobbs in the morning then you will definitely have a 45 minute wait. No 2 ways about it.

On most bridges you will have a 30 minute wait inside the pen trying to get out even "with the flow" So this means you need to allow 50 mins- 1 hour to get from your berth at Cobbs to Poole Quay. The freedom of boating eh?

There is a further complication if you are going "against the flow" - The bridge operators have said that once the first bridge is open in any sequence, if all traffic has stopped moving they may open the second bridge early, as they did on Saturday. This is great, unless you are on your way from Brownsea to catch the Poole bridge and get there to find the sequence was run early. Now you have an hour and a half sequence to get back in. I would personally call on VHF and demand they open again at the published time...
FUBAR IMHO
 
So where did you go Eddie?


EddieBlue said:
It was the bridge failiure back in the summer and the apparent lack of giving a damn that made me realise the futility of Cobbs.

The 2.00 O'clock had been cancelled, the 4.00 O'clock was cancelled and the 5 O'clock was cancelled and the next one was looking dodgy.

PHC said that berths were being prepared, we tied up to be told that we could stay one hour then we would have to leave.

Like everyone else we were phoning around trying to get a berth elsewhere, and like everyone else were told no.

A that point you have to start considering, what happens if they can't mend the bridge tonight? Where would we stay? Frankly I would have refused to leave the quay despite what the PHC said until the PHC opened the bridge to eliviate the problem, however, it does start you thinking about an additional bridge, twice the possibility for failiure etc

Hence why we are leaving albeit reluctantly Cobbs.
Click to expand...
 
Wasn't it supposed to open a few weeks ago, the excuse then was that the operators needed training. Now there saying it needs re-surfacing.
As has been pointed out already, they lied before, I wonder what the truth is now. But hey, we're only the public, we'll believe anything.
 
I returned to Cobbs Quay yesterday on the 16.00 Poole Town Lifting Bridge. There were eight other boats in the pen, mostly 30 to 35 footers.

I recall the Harbour Master saying last year that he estimated the pen would hold 60 boats.
A pretty tight fit in my opinion and a hospital pass for me - and imagine 60 boats on exit squeezing between the the Twin Sails ( how wide is it - 19m ? ) in a nice orderly manner.

Hopefully once i have changed boats it will not be a problem for me.
 
Here's something Peanuts touched on, the old bridge lights have changed. Now they are all red.... so busy summer morning say 10.25, every ones heading out, people racing for the lift to get in the first few... whilst waiting, all the lower air draft boats are cruising past going through the huge gaps in the new bridge....not under light control, but they cant get through the old bridge because all reds and no open side spans, so the holding pen is filling up before the bridge is lifting.

The lights need changing and this is relatively easy and will ease problems slightly
but the whole thing is rollocked for anyone with a bit of air draft...

I've voted with my feet and left. Shame, had many happy years at Cobbs. Hope it works out better than all the doom and gloomers but my boating is about freedom and relaxing and this just defeats the whole point of owning a boat.
 
Old Poole Bridge- knackered

Latest news is that the old bridge will need £180,000 of work just to get it to limp through this season. So look forward to long bridge closures.

The new one has a faulty locking problem, and surface cracks so I wonder what will happen if they are both broken at the same time?

And once the old bridge is condemned for good, we will revert to the old single bridge system. Progress!

The new Cobbs manager Peter has told me that there is an important meeting Friday about many of these issues and he will report back. I will post any relevant info then..

Happy boating!
 
Boycey said:
Latest news is that the old bridge will need £180,000 of work just to get it to limp through this season. So look forward to long bridge closures.

The new one has a faulty locking problem, and surface cracks so I wonder what will happen if they are both broken at the same time?

And once the old bridge is condemned for good, we will revert to the old single bridge system. Progress!

The new Cobbs manager Peter has told me that there is an important meeting Friday about many of these issues and he will report back. I will post any relevant info then..

Happy boating!
Click to expand...
Was delayed 15 mins on 1600 lift yesterday (Monday) whilst her royal lowness opened the non open bridge.

All the problems don't surprise me. When I first saw the plans I thought 'It don't look stiff enough, Millenium bridge all over again!'

Watching it lift on Sunday, the leaves took on a distinct arc, as it bent under it's own weight. And the road surface cracks, what a surprise. And all the electro/hydraulics below water level, great!

When all those 44 tonners start going over, that'll be fun. Trouble is, it's the marine traffic that will suffer.

Then there is those invisible lights. The next thing we know, the Harbour Master will be whinging about all the boats jumping the lights. You can't see the bl**dy things!

I like the new name for the structure, 'The Twin Fails Bodge' (with acknowledgements to BeeJay190)
 
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All that time and money paid out to design consultants etc
jerkit5.gif
, and they couldnt figure out that tarmac hoisted up to 90 degrees wont stick to a big lump off wobbly steel :mad: . The words brewery , organize and piss-up spring to mind .
 
Tarmac falling off whilst bridge vertical! email to Poole Tourism

Last Thursday after some final load tests a small area of defective surfacing was exposed on the lifting leaves.

Over the weekend the bridge was left raised all night on both Saturday and Sunday. Sometime between 7-30pm and 7am on Sunday evening a small area of defective surfacing came away from the lifting section. Whilst it was intended to remove loose material in a controlled way, this incident did not present any hazard because it had already been assessed that loose material would fall onto the road surface. The contractor subsequently removed adjacent material up to a cut edge.

This defect did not interfere with Friday’s celebrations or yesterday’s Royal visit.

(Oh that's good then! (Boycey))

The contractor, Hochtief, together with its materials specialist, are expected to complete investigation work over the next few days. Once the assessment is complete they will then agree with the Council appropriate remedial work. The logistical arrangements to undertake the work over a navigable waterway will take a further period of time to put in to place.

This is clearly a disappointment, but I am pleased that this defect was uncovered before the Council took over the bridge. Hochtief and lead designers, Ramboll, are both world class companies and I am confident that they are able to rectify this problem. Whilst having a vertical road surface is unusual it is no different to the existing lifting bridge.

I will keep you informed of further developments.

Regards,

Jim Bright

Strategic Director
Borough of Poole
 
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