Turn the key, and... nothing. Electrics are not my forte. Where's the fault?

[FairweatherDave]

Last week I motored into the pool and berthed ready to be lifted out next day for winter. Changed the oil and filter while the engine was warm (bit of grunt required with the filter). Boat lifted out. Yesterday trying to winterise the engine by replacing the raw water with an antifreeze mix I tried to start the engine to suck up the mix. Turn the key and no peeping sound from the panel, and nothing when turning the key fully. No lights on the key panel. Batteries are fully charged (I checked). The 1 2 both switch was on (cabin lights). I tried leaving the key in the pre start position where you would normally hear a peep and gently wiggled as many wires as I could, but no sound of life, nothing. And that's where I have got to. Had to come home. Engine is a Beta 25 with a mixture of old and new wiring (still has the original switch board from 1978).
My thoughts are
1. Is there a nice flow chart for diagnosis anyone can point me to?
2. If no lights at the panel is that the best place to start? And how do I start to investigate? I have a multi meter but I have seldom used it.
3. When changing the oil filter I'm pretty sure I didn't dislodge anything but I did use a bit of grunt....anything near there? I have avoided electrics on the whole but I have changed the oil etc plenty of times.
Thanks for any pointers. I'm hoping it should be pretty simple if I can locate where the problem lies

 

[HissyFit]

Sounds like lack of power to the switch/panel. Time to break out the multimeter. Check all leads around the switch from end to end. If there is no buzz or lights when in the first position then it could be lack of continuity through the switch itself or a disconnected lead.

 

[Concerto]

Most likely to be a flat battery.

 

[LadyInBed]

Changed the oil and filter while the engine was warm (bit of grunt required with the filter).

Start looking in this area, as it was the last area of any disturbance before it stopped working.
Were you present when the boat was lifted?
Has anyone from the yard disturbed anything?

 

[John 32i]

I had similar but intermittent fault throughout the early season - checked batteries, starter motor, all visable wiring; ended up changing the ignition barrel, which seems to have worked.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks HissyFit and John 32i. Agree that seems the best place to start.
LIB I wasn't there and have phoned the yard, but I expect they simply pulled the boat up into the hoist. Waiting for a call back. If they did drive it they put the key back exactly where I had hidden it! When I did my wiggle test around the oil filter (so wires to alternator and starter) I couldn't see anything wrong at all and got no peeps from the key panel.
Sorry Concerto, batteries are fine.
Annoyingly not sure how quickly I will be back at the boat. A least it is ashore and didn't mess up the season.

 

[Oily Rag]

I have a Beta 30. Similar, but not identical. My manual is is on board, but I'm not.

From memory, the panel is fed by a 40amp blade fuse located near the starter motor. That's aft of the oil filter and may have been disturbed when you were doing your oil change. Everything to the panel goes through that fuse, via a 2.5mm wire. If that blows or the wire is broken, then there would be no lights on the panel. Not the easiest of access for me, but perhaps worth a look.

Good luck!

 

[jaminb]

My emergency engine kill button is very close to the oil filter - if yours is could a wire have been pulled out

 

[FairweatherDave]

Cheers Oily! That sounds interesting!
Access is always the issue, I'm not sure how I will get to the key panel if I need to get there. Think it is a bit of a pig. It is located in the step you climb over out of the cockpit. (W. Konsort).
I will search if my Beta 25 has an emergency kill button jaminb.....

 

[Bilgediver]

. Engine is a Beta 25 with a mixture of old and new wiring (still has the original switch board from 1978).
My thoughts are
1. Is there a nice flow chart for diagnosis anyone can point me to?
2. If no lights at the panel is that the best place to start? And how do I start to investigate? I have a multi meter but I have seldom used it.

Was the previous engine a Volvo and if yes. Is the old Volvo plastic encased fuse still in the circuit. This is a transparent slab sided transparent plastic item with 4 fuse elements. These fuses develop poor conductivity at the terminals and so it is not unusual to have to attend to these . A usual symptom is a failure to start as the ignition power may come through this fuse.

 

[pandos]

Try jumping/hot wiring the starter motor...

If this works then you will know that the issue is between the panel and the starter...

My money, as has been suggested already, is the feed to the panel which is probably from a connection at or near the starter.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Most likely to be a flat battery.

Even though "Batteries are fully charged (I checked). The 1 2 both switch was on (cabin lights). " ???

 

[Oily Rag]

Before you try "jump starting", remember that you have lost all power to the panel. If it is a Beta panel, then with no power in, there will be ńo lights or buzzer. That's a good clue!

I'm also a Konsort and appreciate the difficulty of access to the starboard side of the engine and the starter motor. If you go onto the Beta website, you can download the manual. It will show you where the blade fuse is. There may even be a spare fuse near the wiring harness.

To be frank, on mine, I'd have to remove the oil filter to get any reasonable access to the starter motor or the blade fuse. So again, good luck!

 

[westernman]

One further possibility which you don't want to hear about is that the windings on the starter motor are corroded.

I had this once, and at first start by manually turning the engine over to a different crankshaft position. It would then go.
Of course, a little while later this did not work either. Turn the key and nothing would happen at all.

This of course means replacing or rewinding the started motor.

 

[Oily Rag]

Apologies for post #13. I of course meant the other starboard! The starter motor and blade fuse are on the port side. ?

By the way, the Beta is stopped using a solenoid, not a cable, so you can rule that out.

 

[Boater Sam]

Could you have pulled the multiplug on the engine loom when you were changing the oil? These Beta plugs are a curse, they come apart or get wet and corrode.
There are often two multiplugs, one near the engine the other near the panel.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Well thanks folks, lots of excellent thoughts, particularly Oily Rag for the Konsort related stuff. I will feed back after I have had a proper crack at it. It was my last job yesterday and light was failing. Next time, who know when that will be, I will be psyched and ready for battle, new knees and a freshly charged torch. Will do some electrical testing theory for multimeter muppets first. That's not to kill the thread, particularly Beta stuff, but I can't add anymore until I have another bash. Meanwhile just bought a tube heater for a temporary fix should winter return.....

 

[jamie N]

Could you have pulled the multiplug on the engine loom when you were changing the oil? These Beta plugs are a curse, they come apart or get wet and corrode.
There are often two multiplugs, one near the engine the other near the panel.

I've used this stuff on connectors 1000's of times over a +40 years period dealing with underwater connectors. It's cheap and very easily available and does keep stuff in good shape when it's in a poor environment. In fact, I don't think that any ROV hasn't got a tube of it with the system; it seals connectors.

 

[alahol2]

I had similar symptoms at the start of this year but they were intermittent.
Fairly certain there were two problems:
1) The starter battery was not dead but dying.
2) The battery master switch was slightly dodgy.

I took the master switch apart, emery cloth'd the contacts and Contralubed. This pretty much cleared up the problem.
Replaced the starter battery because it would probably have died mid-season.
Thankfully we've had no problems since then, at least so far as the engine is concerned.

 

[oldgit]

Could you have pulled the multiplug on the engine loom when you were changing the oil? These Beta plugs are a curse, they come apart or get wet and corrode.
There are often two multiplugs, one near the engine the other near the panel.

+1.
Keep it simple have you dislodged something ?????