Turn it off, please

[oldvarnish]

Vessels must use all available means to determine the risk of a collision, including the use of radar (if available) to get early warning of the risk of collision by radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects.

Always fancied myself as a barrister, so putting on my wig.....

"....my client AIS was switched off, m'lud, because it ceased to be an 'available means of determining risk' because it was so cluttered and overloaded it was impossible to learn anything from it. The incessant bleeping, my client found to be distracting, which is not in the interests of safe navigation. Therefore I suggest to your honour that not only did my client do the right thing when he switched off his AIS in the Solent, your lordship should encourage others to do the same."

 

[DJE]

Amazed the bureaucrats have missed such a money spinner. Just make it illegal to transmit class B within a certain distance of shore and let a computer send out the fixed penalty notices.

 

[Otter]

It's not even as if the ships see the class B signals, they have the same problem in crowded waters and turn off class B reception, the majority only having a three line text display at the back of the bridge in any case.

 

[johnphilip]

active or passive

The devil is, indeed, in the detail. Unfortunately the devil is a lawyer and would probably argue that because a collision occurred the prevailing conditions required the use of all available means.
I know there have been prosecutions in the USA, (probably where my copy of the regs came from), in which the fact that radar was available but not used was an issue.

All available means of lookout would imply keeping the receiver on, no requirement to transmit. Back to myOP change of operational habit is needed, not turn off a useful nav aid because of abuse by those who are not aware of a better way

 

[pteron]

It's not even as if the ships see the class B signals, they have the same problem in crowded waters and turn off class B reception, the majority only having a three line text display at the back of the bridge in any case.

Is this so? A quick google says not....
http://www.sail-world.com/index.cfm?nid=68382

 

[onesea]

It's not even as if the ships see the class B signals, they have the same problem in crowded waters and turn off class B reception, the majority only having a three line text display at the back of the bridge in any case.

Last couple of deck officers I spoke to about this had never heard of class B. Then they where not regular European Waters transitters.

Seems most bridges now have there AIS plugged into the Radar & Electronic chart, so they see AIS details the screen.

I guess the old technology is still out there but like in leisure boats getting less and less...

 

[pyrojames]

You only hav a problem with AIS if you switch it on. You only have a problem with it in the Solent if you are looking more than 0.5 miles away. If you are looking more than half amile away what is the point?

 

[lw395]

You only hav a problem with AIS if you switch it on. You only have a problem with it in the Solent if you are looking more than 0.5 miles away. If you are looking more than half amile away what is the point?

If you'd been sailing the Ouzo, how much warning of the ferry would you have liked?

 

[KREW2]

If you'd been sailing the Ouzo, how much warning of the ferry would you have liked?

I agree with Projames, mine only goes on in bad vis.
When crossing the shipping lanes dodging tankers keeps me alert, the grey matter working, and makes a 10/12 hour passage more interesting.

 

[BrianH]

It's not even as if the ships see the class B signals, they have the same problem in crowded waters and turn off class B reception, the majority only having a three line text display at the back of the bridge in any case.

Where is Tim Bartlett when you need him? He was always popping up to refute this myth. Sorely missed.

Here is one of his clarifications of the subject : http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?263280-AIS-Myths-and-Legends&p=2833674#post2833674

 

[ribrage]

Im on the bridge of a ship right now, no we cannot turn off class B information , what we do have, is big enough monitors that allow us to zoom in or out enough to see what is , or isn't of interest, take into account we have several of these large monitors for displaying radar and / or chart info that can be altered with the click of a mouse.

If you want to see AIS clutter take a look at Singapore harbour where we docked last night, i promise you its busier than the solent on cowes week , chill out, class B is of use , every little helps !

You lot worry to much

 

[TradewindSailor]

In the Port of Singapore it is a requirement to have a AIS transponder. Heavy fines may be imposed if not.

My concern is the over reliance by authorities on high tech navigation and emergency devices as carried by pleasure craft: They can and do fail. If they fail what then? If we are REQUIRED to transmit AIS do we no longer exist if our systems break down?

One of my concerns is search and rescue organisations over-reliance on high tech equipment ..... without the knowledge of the reliability and accuracy of that equipment as it relates to pleasure yachts. If they receive an EPIRB transmission do they take so long in checking out the validity of the transmission that the EPIRB battery goes flat before the search is commenced? Do they rely on Iridium positioning information rather than on positions transmitted verbally or in text from the crew?

High tech can be a great help, but over reliance on it can be a disaster.

 

[Robin]

We are currently having new electronics installed on our sailboat here in Florida, including AIS with transmit and receive, but tansmssion can be turned off (piracy mode so they call it, don't let the buqqers see you ). WE will run without transmission in use 98% of the time I suspect. Some in these parts (Florida) leavetheir transmit on 24/7 just so they can see their pride and joy is still in it's berth when they are at home worrying about it's theft. I wouldn't have bothered with AIS transmitting EXCEPT that there were rumours from the USCG about making it's use Compulsory in areas near to navy bases etc, yet more paranoia from the Department of Homeland insecurity to demonstrate that the terrorists have won....... In our case with a new installation it was easy to just add the dual function AIS as the receive only and then use the 'transmit off' fesature provided as the default on powerup. We are installing a new HD radar at the same time which IMO Is the primary essential after years of sailing in the English channel in all conditions. I see AIS onlyas a supplement to radar not as an alternative and I'm more concerned about missing (and being missed by) the girt great mobos that blast around in unpredictable fashion with full beer lockers than I am big ships with professionals on the bridge Hopefully our AIS position will show on their radar/plotter as well as them on ours and at least we will have a name to call on VHF if needs be. We don't have huge volumes of commercial shipping, even out in the Bahamas / islands but we do have lots of quite large high speed recreational boats out chasing the sport fish as well as plenty of inshore commercial fishing boats

IF we were back sailing out of Poole I would fit an AIS transceiver BUT like the DSC function on the VHF we had on our last UK boat where the constant alarms drove us mad,, it's transmit feature would be switched off except when circumstances justify.

 

[Maninita]

TradewindSailor: "In the Port of Singapore it is a requirement to have a AIS transponder. Heavy fines may be imposed if not."

Not completely true.

For security reasons the Singapore port authority require to be able to track all craft within Singapore waters. That means either you need to be transmitting using either an AIS or a HARTS transponder, which is the local equivalent, at all time without which you will be warned and can be fined.

The problem is that those of us with AIS can't see the HARTS transponder vessels and some of those are fast local ferries, which probably constitute a bigger danger than the large vessels.

That said, even if we didn't have to have it, we wouldn't be without AIS here. Singapore waters are as busy as anywhere in the world, including the English Channel. You need every bit of help you can get to anticipate ship movements.

 

[Cardo]

Well we have a transceiver and I leave it transmitting whenever we're on the move. I figure anything that helps others see us is beneficial. And yes, I was one of the "show offs" (though you wouldn't think so if you saw our boat!) that had it turned on in the Solent, when we were back there.

Yes, some crowded areas do become a bit of a mess on our 7" chartplotter when there are lots of AIS targets around. But as has been mentioned already, zooming in tends to clear this up.

What I think would be handy would be the option to not display vessels below a certain size, or speed on the plotter. However, our Raymarine unit has no such options, only on or off.

 

[prv]

What I think would be handy would be the option to not display vessels below a certain size, or speed on the plotter. However, our Raymarine unit has no such options, only on or off.

Vesper Watchmate can filter by speed, which I think would clear this up for those who insist on displaying AIS on plotters in the Solent in broad daylight (why?) and would certainly be of use to whoever it was with the fast ferries in the Adriatic. I've not come across any suggestion of filtering on size before, but it makes a lot of sense and the information is there in the transmissions (for Class A, anyway, not sure about Class B). I might mention it to Vesper, they've accepted one of my suggestions before.

Pete

 

[BrianH]

Vesper Watchmate can filter by speed, which I think would clear this up for those who insist on displaying AIS on plotters in the Solent in broad daylight (why?) and would certainly be of use to whoever it was with the fast ferries in the Adriatic. I've not come across any suggestion of filtering on size before, but it makes a lot of sense and the information is there in the transmissions (for Class A, anyway, not sure about Class B). I might mention it to Vesper, they've accepted one of my suggestions before.

I'm the one with the Adriatic fast ferry problem and it is a potentially lethal one now that I have to disable CPA alarms due to constant and spurious alarm triggering from Class B targets.

Ship's dimension data are contained in the static data of AIS Class A sentences and therefore transmitted only every 6 minutes. With my non-parallel two-channel receiver - like the majority of the cheaper AIS receivers (NASA et al) with non-simultaneous reception, I can wait a long time before the static data is updated on my display should the first not be synchronised - sometimes as long as 20 minutes before the channels being activated actually do synchronise. It is no practical problem with the almost constant repetition of the dynamic data sentence.

A far better solution is what you mention and already in your Vesper system - a speed filter as it is contained in the dynamic data and always available. I just wish OCPN developers would copy that.

 

[johnphilip]

Well we have a transceiver and I leave it transmitting whenever we're on the move. I figure anything that helps others see us is beneficial. And yes, I was one of the "show offs" (though you wouldn't think so if you saw our boat!) that had it turned on in the Solent, when we were back there.

Yes, some crowded areas do become a bit of a mess on our 7" chartplotter when there are lots of AIS targets around. But as has been mentioned already, zooming in tends to clear this up.

What I think would be handy would be the option to not display vessels below a certain size, or speed on the plotter. However, our Raymarine unit has no such options, only on or off.

As far as clutter on the plotter is concerned I dont think zooming in is an answer. To find my next navigation mark I normally zoom out until the screen includes the largest area without losing the chart details, scroll to the approx position of the mark and try and find it amongst the welter of red AIS script.

In what way does " I figure anything that helps others see us is beneficial." work on a clear day in a popular sailing area. About as much benefit as turning on Nav lights in the same circumstance. As I originally proposed AIS transmissions should be treated as use when required, just like your Nav lights.

 

[flaming]

As I originally proposed AIS transmissions should be treated as use when required or useful just as I am sure you do with your Nav lights.

Why transmit when required, not receive when required?

Frankly, if you're using AIS to judge collision risk inside the solent (other crowded yachting venues are available) I'm a little bit scared. Why not just turn off your receiver, or the overlay onto your plotter, when you don't want to clutter up your nav display - and turn it on offshore when you will have a more limited number of contacts at medium distances - where AIS really comes into its own. Better that way I think, than potentially forgetting to turn it on when fog descends or you head offshore.

 

[deuc02]

Frankly, if you're using AIS to judge collision risk inside the solent (other crowded yachting venues are available) I'm a little bit scared.

At last someone has stated the bleeding obvious. AIS is great and has its uses but for many its a bit of flash kit like mobos spinning their radars with 10k plus vis.

Ps not a fan of reciever only types. Used properly its a bit unfair if you can see me and i cant see you.