Turkey...checking in .

[Appleyard]

We have just returned from a trip from Greece to Turkey,and have left the boat there for the summer.
Checking in to Turkey was a bloody nightmare.
Taking advice from those who had been there and done it ..we arrived in Bodrum Marina,stumped up the extortionate price for one night ,and stumped up ditto for a transit log ..The girl in the Marina reception kindly explained how to fill it in,(The notes said to "complete in block letters" ) and off we trundled to (1) the health office...in and out in a jiffy,similarly the passport office ,got our visa done there,and off next door to the customs guy who was very friendly and helpful. As\we walked back to the final ofice,(the harbourmaster) I remarked to SWMBO that I did not understand what all the fuss was about re checking in to Turkey,and was looking forward to a cool beer .
Spoke too soon.
There was much shaking of heads and pursing of lips in the Harbourmasters office. Eventually it was explained to us that this document was "no good" that "the procedure has changed " and that the document should e printed on a computer and that we must have an agent to do this bla bla bla .
So back to the Marina office we went,,to learn that they knew nothing about this ne procedure ,but they also said that we had to have an agent...quoting 180 Euros for the fee.,and that we would have to buy another transit log (at 40 E).
WE eventually found an official who was able to give us the correct info,and also log us on to the system,at no extra cost bar the expense of a new document.
Then we had to go the rounds of the health,passport,and customs again,explaining why we had returned,and getting our new log stamped in each office,finally returning to the harburmasters office who stil tried to hook us up with an agent,but we insisted that we did not want one and they eventually stamped the log ,granting us official status.

Everyone who we speak to seems to have their own tale to tell about the difficulty of entering Turkey..this is ours.
Had it not been for the fact that we had been given a very good deal on leaving the boat over the summer,and had booked and paid for flights home we would have turned around and headed back to Greece.
The whole episode left us a bit flat..we had been looking forward to visiting the country,however things improved a lot during the following weeks .
The crunch will come no doubt when we have to renew the log.

 

[MASH]

Hard to believe that tthe marina staff didn't know about this. It's been the hot topic in Turkey for 2 months or more.

It appears that the rational behind this insanity is that the Gov't don't trust harbourmasters with cash anymore - the new procedure requires the - what? 7YTL stamp fee to be paid into a bank account electronically. To do this an agent is required who had the necessary electronic transfer set up - and thay can charge what they like. I've heard up to Eu250, but 100 inc transit log is apparently achieveable in most places - as usual in Turkey barter them down. Prior to this I've had no difficulty checking in or out (I'm one of the few who bother to do it) in several years - the procedure is slow and tedious and seems unneceessary to our modern Eu minds, but has never, to date, given me a problem.

Yachts under 10m are exempt from the mandatory agent bit - in theorey at least. However whether the harbourmaster will accept a hand written Transit Log or take cash in this case is another matter, and one that no doubt others will clarify in due course.

Sorry to hear your first experience of Turkey was so negative, you will find it a wonderful place with friendly people and stunning scenery, and unbelieveably good cruising. However the rip=off culture is growing apace and prices are streaking up, and as you've seen the bureaucracy can be mind-boggling. Just don't get in a road accident - then you'll really find out what a 3rd world police-state is like!

 

[charles_reed]

The very reason that I aborted going to Turkey and transferred my flight from Dalaman to Athens.

3 months on the hard at Preveza is only costing me €500, including lifts and pressure wash, so I think Greece still is a more tranquil bet.

Mind, I think that when things have settled down a bit, Turkey will be less of an expensive nightmare to enter (and leave).

 

[syfuga]

Sadly its true. New computer based system on top of old manual procedures. In theory under 10 ton you can do it yourself, in practice its difficult. It depends where you try to check in/out or renew your transit log.. and everyone's experience is different depending who you get on the day.

Bodrum stinks. Dacha seems good. Turgutries variable. Fethiye ok?

It will take time to settle down.

(But Greece can be as bad and expensive!)

 

[charles_reed]

<<Yachts under 10m are exempt from the mandatory agent bit>>

I think you'll find it's to do with burthen (NOT DISPLACEMENT) tonnage, though the figure is 10. However the formula used to determine whether a boat is exempt or not is likely to catch most boats - my 6600lb displacement boat works out, under the Marmaris harbourmaster's formula at 9.3 tons.

10 metres is the current LOA, under which boats in Greece are exempt from the DEKPA (which is another chore).

 

[pmyatt]

Sounds very like when I came to pay VAT on the boat here in Cyprus. Filling out the forms was easy but the customs official would not accept them because they had not come from an agent - another €100!

 

[Eeyore]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you'll find it's to do with burthen (NOT DISPLACEMENT) tonnage, though the figure is 10. However the formula used to determine whether a boat is exempt or not is likely to catch most boats - my 6600lb displacement boat works out, under the Marmaris harbourmaster's formula at 9.3 tons.


[/ QUOTE ]
Can you please enlighten us all re the harbourmaster's 'formula' that you keep referring to?

 

[charles_reed]

Perhaps this will help - the one he uses is slightly different, why don't you ask him?

Thames Measurement
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Thames Measurement, also known as Thames Tonnage, is a system for measuring ships and boats. It was created by the Thames Yacht Club, and was designed for small vessels, such as yachts. It was originally used for calculating the port dues for yachts; the formula was also used in some early handicapping systems for yacht racing.[1]

The calculation of Thames Tonnage uses the following formula:
{{Thames Tonnage}} = \frac {({length}-{beam}) \times {beam} \times \frac {beam}{2}} {94}

where:

* length is the length, in feet, from the stempost to sternpost;
* beam is the maximum beam, in feet.

This can be simplified as:
{{Thames Tonnage}} = \frac {({length}-{beam}) \times {beam}^2} {188}

 

[MASH]

Correction to my last post - 10m should have read 10 T. Oops!

Well, I queried this rumour extensively last month in Marmaris and at my marina, and drew blank looks everywhere. No one out there knows anything about "formulae" for 10T. They go by the weight shown on your Certificate of Registration.

What I am really interested in (having an under 10T boat) is how such people are getting on with hand written transit logs - are they being accepted, or being told to get them typed as has been suggested elsewhere?

 

[demonboy]

I can't believe I'm being drawn into this... again!

There IS NO FORMULA. It is based upon ship's certificate data.

To JamesMar: I sincerely hope that this episode has not marred your view of Turkey. Don't listen to the doom-mongers on this forum and please don't let this annoyance put you off. Put it to bed and get on and enjoy one of the most beautiful countries, with the best cruising ground, with the friendliest natives, in the world. You will not regret coming here and I can guarantee that, as can the many other YBW users based in Turkey (cue fellow yotties to make positive noises about sailing in Turkey).

If you want any recommendations on where to go in the Bodrum peninsular then either PM me or use the search facility on our website. We've got loads of stories and pics on the many anchorages in the Turkish Aegean.

 

[Appleyard]

Hi Jamie....As I said,things did improve after the initial hassle in Bodrum.,and we have since found Turkey to be a great place to sail. The really annoying thing was that nobody in any of the various offices seemed to have the correct and up to date information regarding the log. It is sorted out now,for the time being anyway. I am now back in the UK,back at work for the next 10 weeks and looking forward to returning to Turkey at the beginning of September. The boat is safely tucked up in a yard.
Incidentally....talking about rip-offs...Bodrum airport....5 Euros for a small can of Coke,7 for a small beer. And no I did not buy .

 

[dod]

[ QUOTE ]
There IS NO FORMULA. It is based upon ship's certificate data.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pray enlighten this poor misinformed soul on the procedure used, when the data in question, ie GRT (Gross Registered Tonnage) is not given on any of the ship's documents.
Please also inform us, uneducated in such matters, how to go about getting the 'GRT' recorded on the Small Ships Registration Certificate.
Thanks in anticipation.

 

[Tranona]

It is not a requirement on the SSR although it is on the Part 1 certificate. It is, however a requirement for the VHF certificate, although they just enter what you put on the form - there is no requirement for a certified measurement.

Not very satisfactory, but when the SSR was introduced one of the objectives was to minimise cost and as the GRT/NRT is meaningless for most purposes (its main purpose was for assessing light dues which do not apply to yachts - but see today's news item for the impact on ships) it was considered an unnecessary complication.

Does not help in countries like Greece and Turkey that use it for calculating dues. In Greece they use the figure on my Bill of Sale, which was calculated by the Greek registrar when it was on their register. (It's 14.3 NRT)

 

[demonboy]

@ James: September is a great time for sailing in Turkey! Glad things worked out. Dalaman airport is the same rip off prices. Trick there is to use the restaurant just outside of the airport as it's more sensibly priced. I ordered a coffee at the airport cafe and was asked for 8 lira. I laughed in his face, I was so taken aback. Needless to say I refused to pay.

@ ercildoune: this subject has been discussed in depth in another thread very recently, though I don't know if it answers your question. Esper is over 15tons and it says so on our certificate. I would love to pop into the harbour master and find out all the answers but they are not relevant to me. Whilst I would like to get a definitive answer to settle this matter once and for all, I'll have to decline right now as I'm busy busting a gut on the hard in 35 degrees of heat and the nearest harbour master is a day sail away.

@ everyone: for the record it is worth noting that James said even the authorities in Bodrum were not aware of the rules/regulations/situation. If THEY don't know anything about it, then what hope do we forumites have?
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[dod]

Thanks for reply and the info. No sign of GRT/NRT on my vhf cert. online form has provision for entering this but when I filled in my application (2006) I had no idea that GRT was different from displacement ie weight. However it seems that the figure is irrelevant if not shown on the vhf cert.
So question still unanswered. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[KellysEye]

From Wikipedia: "Tonnage is a measure of the size or cargo capacity of a ship. The term derives from the taxation paid on tuns of wine, and was later used in reference to the weight of a ship's cargo; however, in modern maritime usage, "tonnage" specifically refers to a calculation of the volume or cargo volume of a ship. The term is still sometimes incorrectly used to refer to the weight of a loaded or empty vessel."

If you don't know the GRT I'd use displacement weight - I doubt anybody would challenge it since you are not carrying cargo.

NRT is total volume less engine room and other places you can't stow cargo. Say 30% less than GRT.

 

[Tranona]

I understand the reason for having to put it on your VHF application is so that the record against your call sign gives some indication of size for any future rescue!

If you do go on the Part 1 register there is a survey and the surveyor does the calculation (similar to the formula on an earlier post but with some adjustments).

I expect the Turkish registration authorities use a similar calculation, but whether the local official knows how to do it i have no idea.

 

[dod]

thanks. As I am in Bodrum and have been for the winter I have researched this subject because of all the controversy here. When I checked in last year I gave displacement as the GRT and this was accepted and entered on the transit log. (not typed then by the way) Hopefully this will remain when I come to renew the 'log' (if I renew at all due to all the horror stories) As for checking out why is it necessary if you are not returning? Thus removing the need for an agent.
Don't believe all the wonderful things you read about Turkey you have to find out for yourself like most things.

 

[Marsupial]

We retire in a month or so and will be visiting Turkey for a few weeks to get the low down on "the process" in Fethiye. The plan is to take the boat out there next spring. BUT if it seems to be too hard then perhaps we will rethink our plans and make for Malta or Cyprus. Certainly Turkey is a very pretty place and the natives are mostly friendly, we have some very good friends there, but if the regime is not user friendly its no good to us, we've both had enough of wrestling with pigs, its time for a rest. Give us a couple of weeks and we will try to report back wifi willing!!

 

[Moscowman100]

Guys, the Turks have invented a new, price negotiable, job creation scheme. You can run around town 'depriving' a local of their fee for typing up your form or you can pay up in good grace. When I queried the price, I was told it was a way of separating sheep from goats - FWIW, I think Turkey is well worth paying a €200± annual fee to cruise in. What still gets me are the separate queues for buying a visa and passport control!!!!!!!