Trotman barge below Hampton court

Re: Always willing to help.

Probably copying the last insurance policy and changing the date! unless the EA actually contact the Insurance company to verify if its genuine!
 
Re: Always willing to help.

How hard is it to become a BSS examiner? Could trotman have put himself, or a friend, through the process for guaranteed certificates?
 
Re: Always willing to help.

Actionmat said:
If the EA are not forthcoming, could there be grounds for a Freedom of Information request?
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If river users do actually feel so strongly about this then surely now is the time for somebody to stick their head over the pulpit and organise an active group prepared to do something in a legal and sensible measured way to gather information that the official organisations can use.
That FOI request can probably be made by any organisation with a legitimate interest.

The existing groups have rather lot to do at the moment with CART, people avoiding paying license fees and present/ future cuts in funding !.
 
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Re: Always willing to help.

Actionmat said:
I thought I'd shop around for cheaper insurance, but couldn't find a new insurer who would cover any boat over 27ft without a new survey. This would cost a lot more than the few quid I might save on a new policy, so how on earth does Trotman get insurance on boats of that size without a satisfactory surveryors report and from where?
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Third-party insurance on pleasure boats doesn't usually need a survey.
 
Re: Always willing to help.

JumbleDuck said:
Third-party insurance on pleasure boats doesn't usually need a survey.
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That's interesting, but Trotmans flotilla can't be classed as pleasure boats, surely? And if they are insured as such, the policy would be invalid. Meaning he's operating and occassionaly navigating the Thames in an uninsured dosshouse
 
Re: Always willing to help.

Actionmat said:
That's interesting, but Trotmans flotilla can't be classed as pleasure boats, surely? And if they are insured as such, the policy would be invalid. Meaning he's operating and occassionaly navigating the Thames in an uninsured dosshouse
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Obviously leisure insurance wouldn't work, but it may be that even commercial third-party insurance is less worried about surveys.

I find it a little hard to understand why leisure boaters are so outraged by the man. Sure the accommodation looks dreadful - but there is legislation covering acceptable standards of housing. Sure he moors where he no permission to do - but that's a matter between him and the landowner. What actual harm is he doing to anyone else?
 
Re: Always willing to help.

JumbleDuck said:
Obviously leisure insurance wouldn't work, but it may be that even commercial third-party insurance is less worried about surveys.

I find it a little hard to understand why leisure boaters are so outraged by the man. Sure the accommodation looks dreadful - but there is legislation covering acceptable standards of housing. Sure he moors where he no permission to do - but that's a matter between him and the landowner. What actual harm is he doing to anyone else?
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He is taking advantage of both the people who live on the things, and the people who run the river.

Do you think he declares and pays appropriate tax on all his income from these boats? If he is, great. If he is not, he is taking advantage of HMRC too, which means he is taking advantage of everyone of us that pays tax.
 
Re: Always willing to help.

JumbleDuck said:
I find it a little hard to understand why leisure boaters are so outraged by the man. Sure the accommodation looks dreadful - but there is legislation covering acceptable standards of housing. Sure he moors where he no permission to do - but that's a matter between him and the landowner. What actual harm is he doing to anyone else?
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It could take all day to answer that!
Much as deplore nimby-ism and prejudices his boats turn every place they go into a no go zone, he's sticking a finger up to all of us.
 
Re: Always willing to help.

CLB said:
He is taking advantage of both the people who live on the things, and the people who run the river.

Do you think he declares and pays appropriate tax on all his income from these boats? If he is, great. If he is not, he is taking advantage of HMRC too, which means he is taking advantage of everyone of us that pays tax.
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If he is not paying tax then clearly he should be dealt with in the appropriate way. However, in view of the public way in which he operates it seems unlikely to me that the whole operation is flying beneath the tax radar.

Chris_d said:
It could take all day to answer that!
Much as deplore nimby-ism and prejudices his boats turn every place they go into a no go zone, he's sticking a finger up to all of us.
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In what way does he turn the river into a no-go zone? He's using, what, a couple of hundred feet of bank out of 100 miles. Does he stop other boat passing?

The idea of a Concerned Residents Action Group seems curious. Will it concentrate only on Mr Trotman, it will it aim to get rid of all the boats on the river which its members think ugly?
 
Re: Always willing to help.

JumbleDuck said:
If he is not paying tax then clearly he should be dealt with in the appropriate way. However, in view of the public way in which he operates it seems unlikely to me that the whole operation is flying beneath the tax radar.



In what way does he turn the river into a no-go zone? He's using, what, a couple of hundred feet of bank out of 100 miles. Does he stop other boat passing?

The idea of a Concerned Residents Action Group seems curious. Will it concentrate only on Mr Trotman, it will it aim to get rid of all the boats on the river which its members think ugly?
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I don't suppose HMRC wander along tow paths looking for businesses to investigate, so unless someone reports him, how would they know? I also understand he is a foreign national, so he may not be on HMRC's radar even as an individual.

This is all supposition. Mr Trotman may be the most honest and law abiding citizen there is, and pay every penny that is due. On the other hand, knowing how he plays the rules, you could equally see that he may avoid the odd tax requirement where he can.
 
Re: Always willing to help.

jumbleduck:

Alistair Trotman and dozens of others who lodge at his dosshouse, use the river and the woods as a toilet. I could go on and on, but the short answer to your question, is that he is responsible for changing the face of the river down these parts and the councils attitude towards all boaters has changed because of him.
 
Re: Always willing to help.

Actionmat said:
Alistair Trotman and dozens of others who lodge at his dosshouse, use the river and the woods as a toilet. I could go on and on, but the short answer to your question, is that he is responsible for changing the face of the river down these parts and the councils attitude towards all boaters has changed because of him.
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Thanks. The toilet business does not sound pleasant, though Wikipedia suggests an average flow of around 60 m3 per second between Windsor and Teddington, which is 15,000 standard toilet flushes per second. nevertheless, even a small amount of raw sewage is clearly antisocial ... but surely that is something for the Environment Agency to worry about?

Could you let me know of ways in which council attitudes have changed? Not being contentious - I'd really like to know. My boating mainly happens in places where there is a real mix of things around from the new and shiny to the thoroughly dilapidated, and nobody seems to worry too much.
 
Re: Always willing to help.

The logical conclusion is that all public moorings would be full of favela boats.

If this happened it would cause enough agro that the moorings would be made unavailable to everyone. Thats how it works. One person pushes the boundaries too much and the system changes.

Some people like the relaxed mooring arrangements on the River, and take advantage of them while not wishing to push it too far.

The mooring above teddington lock cut used to be a nice relaxed spot then the squatters turned up and now locals are encouraged to report anyone mooring there.

Relaxing ? Not really
 
Re: Always willing to help.

I think I've run through before the things that have taken place while these boats were moored above the lock , but I can run through it again for the people who are struggling to understand what takes place

1. Large aggressive dogs running free , making the towpath terrifying for the public
2. Aforementioned dogs shitting everywhere
3. Large bonfires on the towpath
4. Wooden fences torn down to feed the fires
5. Persistent drug use ( mainly in the summer , sitting round the fires )
6. Drug sales , year round
7. Commercial rubbish dumped in EA bins ( waterways pays for the disposal , meant for boats passing through )
8. Threats to stab lock staff when challenged about dumping rubbish
9. Rubbish dumped all round the towpath , and on ham common
10. Sewage entering water
11. Loud all night parties
12. Locks cut off EA access gates to allow access for vehicles to the slumboats
13. EA property damaged / stolen regularly on the lock island
14. Trees cut down for firewood

The list goes on and on and on, the above are just a few of the things off the top of my head having dealt with this for years

One time I was alerted to a body on the towpath by the slumboats by a member of the public , when I went to check it was just one of the residents who had got so ( edited after request by moderator so as not to offend the trolling duck ) on drugs at a fire party that he was virtually comatose.

Now the peaceful , happy go lucky mooring arrangements have been destroyed by this man , the council are all over anyone who stays longer than a few hours . It's not nimbyism, you have to realise , this man destroys riverside relationships and communities. He makes out it's all Rosie and jim , but I guarantee the crime rate will go up
 
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Re: Always willing to help.

teddington_lock said:
I think I've run through before the things that have taken place while these boats were moored above the lock , but I can run through it again for the people who are struggling to understand what takes place

1. Large aggressive dogs running free , making the towpath terrifying for the public
2. Aforementioned dogs shitting everywhere
3. Large bonfires on the towpath
4. Wooden fences torn down to feed the fires
5. Persistent drug use ( mainly in the summer , sitting round the fires )
6. Drug sales , year round
7. Commercial rubbish dumped in EA bins ( waterways pays for the disposal , meant for boats passing through )
8. Threats to stab lock staff when challenged about dumping rubbish
9. Rubbish dumped all round the towpath , and on ham common
10. Sewage entering water
11. Loud all night parties
12. Locks cut off EA access gates to allow access for vehicles to the slumboats
13. EA property damaged / stolen regularly on the lock island
14. Trees cut down for firewood

The list goes on and on and on, the above are just a few of the things off the top of my head having dealt with this for years

One time I was alerted to a body on the towpath by the slumboats by a member of the public , when I went to check it was just one of the residents who had got so ( edited after request by moderator so as not to offend the trolling duck ) on drugs at a fire party that he was virtually comatose.

Now the peaceful , happy go lucky mooring arrangements have been destroyed by this man , the council are all over anyone who stays longer than a few hours . It's not nimbyism, you have to realise , this man destroys riverside relationships and communities. He makes out it's all Rosie and jim , but I guarantee the crime rate will go up
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+1
 
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TL's list makes me feel so sad, especially when I recall my years on Ham Hough as a sprog and teenager.


Has anyone considered setting up a working party with elected councillors from all the LAs to try and prevent Trotman spoiling the river community any more. Sharing information on his location, on the legal processes and results, and logging details of all the incidents his residents cause. Harnessing public knowledge and knowledge in a co-ordinated effort ?
 
Richmond council spent a lot of time and money on their bylaw, the reason it took so long to come into force is because they wanted a robust bylaw that could be adopted by other riverside councils.

It's been tested in court , and has won , more than once.

I believe it has yet to be adopted by any other councils though ( Kingston, Elmbridge, spelthorne etc ) and have no knowledge of how long it would take to bring into law in those councils. Presumably not as long as for richmond , because all the legislation and challenges have been done already.

I suspect EA will be the hub for the local authorities to deal with.

An FOI request on the expenditure to date ( 2007-2017 ) by the EA on the trotman enforcement issue would make interesting reading I suspect.
 
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Re: Always willing to help.

teddington_lock said:
The list goes on and on and on, the above are just a few of the things off the top of my head having dealt with this for years
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All very unpleasant, but not really related to the boats themselves. Antisocial behaviour legislation should be used for such things.

One time I was alerted to a body on the towpath by the slumboats by a member of the public , when I went to check it was just one of the residents who had got so ****** on drugs at a fire party that he was virtually comatose.
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Please, please don't use that word. It's grossly offensive to people with Down's syndrome.
 
Re: Always willing to help.

JumbleDuck said:
All very unpleasant, but not really related to the boats themselves.
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If that's what you still think after having the situation explained to you by an ex Lock Keeper and a handful of locals, then I can only assume that you know nothing of the area or you're trolling.
 
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