TroJan batterys, final question for opions

[Peter]

Thanks for your answers to my previous post, just looking for a final option before I make my final choice against Trogan's, or leisure battries based on some answers I have received off Trojan. For info my set up is repeated below. My biggest question is the mixing of the Trogan's 12v and 6v batteries where I need the 12v to provide cranking current to my bow thruster/windlass

TROJAN ANSWERS

In parallel connections, different amp-hour capacity batteries can be mixed but do not mix different battery chemistries or manufacturers. I recommend you use the SCS225 as your 12V battery to mix with T-105’s in parallel.

The 820A cranking rate is at 32 degrees-F and it is for 30 seconds. This battery is a deep cycle battery first, and can be also used as a cranking battery.

The cycle life for the SCS 225 is 600 cycles at 50% DOD and 1200 cycles for the T-105 at 50% DOD.

The 12V battery should have no effect on the T105 batteries when it comes to cycle life.


Current set up 440amp/hr house battery’ bank, seperate up front battery 110a/hr for bowthruster and windlass, but connected to house bank, so seen as part of house bank, and engine start battery with VSR separating house and engine battery. All charging by solar, wind and shore based Stirling battery charger.

Thanks

 

[PaulRainbow]

Personally, i would fit a mid priced leisure battery up front and connect it to the engine battery. You will always have the engine running when you want to use the windlass or bow thruster, so it will never run the engine battery flat. When you leave an anchorage after a few days you will still have fully charged engine and windlass batteries to haul the anchor, having on the domestic bank might leave the windlass battery somewhat depleted.

 

[Minchsailor]

I have just ordered a pair of Trojan T145s - fingers crossed I get better life than with previous 'leisure' batteries, which were pretty hopeless.

 

[ghostlymoron]

From what I've read, battery life depends more on the way they're treated and the lead content than the maker. Personally, I'm not into mollycoddling my battery excessively it's there to serve me rather than vice versa.

 

[Heckler]

I have just ordered a pair of Trojan T145s - fingers crossed I get better life than with previous 'leisure' batteries, which were pretty hopeless.

I dont understand this aversion to leisure batteries. I put new Numax 110 amp on about 7 years ago, they are still going strong. Although they are "sealed" I can unscrew the "cross" fillers and I top them up yearly.
Stu

 

[Richard10002]

I have just ordered a pair of Trojan T145s - fingers crossed I get better life than with previous 'leisure' batteries, which were pretty hopeless.

I destroyed 3 x 110Ah £70 batteries in 1 year 2012/13 then I destroyed 3 x 110Ah Varta hobby in 2 years 2013/15, and I have now destroyed 4 x Trojan T105s in 2 years 2015/17.

I have a NASA BM2, and a Smartguage and am quite anal about batteries and charging. I dont have access to shore power so use a Honda Eu20i generator, via a Sterling inverter charger, and I could go on....

You can destroy Trojan T105 deep cycle batteries, just as easily as "cheaper" leisure batteries!

I'm eeking out my Trojans whilst considering my position, but will probably be spending £300 or so on 3 x 110Ah leisure of some kind, as agains £450 or so for 4 more Trojans.

£.Ah are similar, but I survived OK for the previous 2 years on 330Ah rather than 450Ah.

 

[geem]

You can destroy Trojan T105 deep cycle batteries, just as easily as "cheaper" leisure batteries!

I dont think that is strictly true. You can destroy any battery if you abuse it but if you are using in the way it was designed then in theory the deep cycle batteries will out perform the leisure battery. They need water if you are gassing them. Trojans are likely to need more water than standard leisure batteries which seem to be basically starter batteries with a little more support for the plates.
I had the infortunate experience last year to have a sealed marine leisure battery explode on me. It did give me the opportunity to have a good look inside and they are no different construction to my current 8D truck batteries. Plate thickness looks identical although I didnt measure it accurately.
From what I can tell, if you are a weekend sailer with a few weeks a year for summer hols etc then leasure batteries make good economic sense. If you are liveaboard then deep cycle makes more sense. I decided not to go the deep cylce route as out here in the Caribbean those batteries are very expensive. I chose four truck batteries that give me something like 900-1000 amp hr. In reality we dont discharge them more than 5% of their capacity so we are using them as intended. In theory we should get many thousands of cycles from them. The only killer out here is temperature. They are likely to die prematurely due to the heat but that is the same for any battery type from what I can tell. I can buy 8D batteries here for $255 each

 

[ghostlymoron]

Like! Batteries are very simple devices - lead plates and sulphuric acid. Provided the case doesn't leak that's all you get.

I dont understand this aversion to leisure batteries. I put new Numax 110 amp on about 7 years ago, they are still going strong. Although they are "sealed" I can unscrew the "cross" fillers and I top them up yearly.
Stu

 

[geem]

Like! Batteries are very simple devices - lead plates and sulphuric acid. Provided the case doesn't leak that's all you get.

+1

 

[KellysEye]

We had two six volt Trojans wired in series, deep cycle batteres should be used as house batteries, a good example of their use is golf carts. Long distance sailing ours lasted for 5 years with daily usage. For the anchor winch and engine use CCA batteries which handle short bursts of power.

 

[pvb]

Thanks for your answers to my previous post, just looking for a final option before I make my final choice against Trogan's, or leisure battries based on some answers I have received off Trojan. For info my set up is repeated below. My biggest question is the mixing of the Trogan's 12v and 6v batteries where I need the 12v to provide cranking current to my bow thruster/windlass

Why not follow Trojan's advice on the choice of 12v battery? With proper use and care, the Trojans are likely to last much longer and be more cost-effective.

 

[tudorsailor]

Two years ago I had Trojan T145 batteries fitted 2 years ago in Dubrovnik. I have 8 batteries, so two parallel sets for 24 volts. I have mastervolt charger with remote control display
I have always tried to keep them topped with demineralized water as one buys in a supermarket. I keep the charge level above 60% when on board. Over the winter the yacht (in Gouvia) has been looked after in a manner what makes me wonder if the batteries were kept charged or were allowed to flatten
.
On this first trip of the season, I noticed that the connections to the battery posts were all rusty. The electrician noticed that the battery cases were bulging. When the battery charger was on one could hear gassing. The battery man from mastervolt said that the batteries were dangerous and they have now been taken off. The floor if the battery box is discoloured by the heat from the batteries

I do not know why the batteries have failed after 2 years. The previous Varta batteries lasted 5 years.
I wish I could put sealed gel or AGM, but the battery box is too small

The local man is now looking for replacement batteries. I suspect I will be back with wet again - plus a huge bill

Ugh

TudorSailor

 

[Rivers & creeks]

I destroyed 3 x 110Ah £70 batteries in 1 year 2012/13 then I destroyed 3 x 110Ah Varta hobby in 2 years 2013/15, and I have now destroyed 4 x Trojan T105s in 2 years 2015/17.

I have a NASA BM2, and a Smartguage and am quite anal about batteries and charging. I dont have access to shore power so use a Honda Eu20i generator, via a Sterling inverter charger, and I could go on....

Doesn't sound like it's the batteries' fault.

 

[geem]

Two years ago I had Trojan T145 batteries fitted 2 years ago in Dubrovnik. I have 8 batteries, so two parallel sets for 24 volts. I have mastervolt charger with remote control display
I have always tried to keep them topped with demineralized water as one buys in a supermarket. I keep the charge level above 60% when on board. Over the winter the yacht (in Gouvia) has been looked after in a manner what makes me wonder if the batteries were kept charged or were allowed to flatten
.
On this first trip of the season, I noticed that the connections to the battery posts were all rusty. The electrician noticed that the battery cases were bulging. When the battery charger was on one could hear gassing. The battery man from mastervolt said that the batteries were dangerous and they have now been taken off. The floor if the battery box is discoloured by the heat from the batteries

I do not know why the batteries have failed after 2 years. The previous Varta batteries lasted 5 years.
I wish I could put sealed gel or AGM, but the battery box is too small

The local man is now looking for replacement batteries. I suspect I will be back with wet again - plus a huge bill

Ugh

TudorSailor

I suggest you do more research on batteries before you buy. Unless you want to put batteries upside down or on their side there is little benifit from Gel or AGM. Trojan batteries should be among the most bulletproof batteries you could install. Surely solar could look after your batteries whilst you are not onboard and i really dont understand why you think keeping batteries at about 60% charged is good. Why not keep them close to 100 % charged? It isnt that difficult in this day an age with good solar regulators and sufficient panel area. I suspect your battieries died from gross under charging.

 

[tudorsailor]

i really dont understand why you think keeping batteries at about 60% charged is good. Why not keep them close to 100 % charged? It isnt that difficult in this day an age with good solar regulators and sufficient panel area. I suspect your battieries died from gross under charging.

Maybe I should make things a bit clearer. I do not aim to keep the batteries at 60% charge. I keep an eye on the level of charge when under sail or at anchor, and if the charge gets down to about 60% I charge up the batteries with the generator back to 100%.
When in the marina, and I am on board, the batteries are kept charged to 100% from shore power.
When I am not on board, ordinarily the shore power is plugged in every week or two to bring the charge back up if it has dropped. However, I am not so sure this happened this winter.

TudorSailor

 

[KellysEye]

>My biggest question is the mixing of the Trogan's 12v and 6v batteries where I need the 12v to provide cranking current to my bow thruster/windlass

The Trojan site says you can use them for Cold Cranking but they will have less power than a CCA battery. My advice would be don't use a Trojan as it's not designed for that it will last less time then a CCA battery.

This is what th Trojan site says: What is the difference between a deep cycle battery, a starting battery, and a dual-purpose battery?
A deep-cycle battery has the ability to be deeply discharged and charged many times during its service life. It is designed specifically for powering electrical equipment for long periods of time. An automotive or starting battery is designed for brief bursts of high current and cannot withstand more than a few deep discharges before failure. This is why it is unable to start your car if you accidentally leave the lights on more than a couple of times. For applications where both engine starting and light deep cycling are required, a dual-purpose battery is often used. This type of battery is neither a starting nor a deep-cycle battery but rather a compromise between the two so it performs both functions adequately.

 

[geem]

Maybe I should make things a bit clearer. I do not aim to keep the batteries at 60% charge. I keep an eye on the level of charge when under sail or at anchor, and if the charge gets down to about 60% I charge up the batteries with the generator back to 100%.
When in the marina, and I am on board, the batteries are kept charged to 100% from shore power.
When I am not on board, ordinarily the shore power is plugged in every week or two to bring the charge back up if it has dropped. However, I am not so sure this happened this winter.

TudorSailor

Ok, that clearer could they have got low on water? We used to have sealed batteries. We are now on open cell batteries. The sealed batteries got low on water. One of them got very hot. It did a thermal run away thing whilst on mains charge due I think, to the lack of water covering the plates. The battery stayed very hot and even though we unplugged the charger it exploded. It was a Vetus sealed leasure battery. I believe we had a faulty solar charger and the batteries over charged which probably boiled the water away.

 

[pvb]

>My biggest question is the mixing of the Trogan's 12v and 6v batteries where I need the 12v to provide cranking current to my bow thruster/windlass

The Trojan site says you can use them for Cold Cranking but they will have less power than a CCA battery. My advice would be don't use a Trojan as it's not designed for that it will last less time then a CCA battery.

This is what th Trojan site says: What is the difference between a deep cycle battery, a starting battery, and a dual-purpose battery?
A deep-cycle battery has the ability to be deeply discharged and charged many times during its service life. It is designed specifically for powering electrical equipment for long periods of time. An automotive or starting battery is designed for brief bursts of high current and cannot withstand more than a few deep discharges before failure. This is why it is unable to start your car if you accidentally leave the lights on more than a couple of times. For applications where both engine starting and light deep cycling are required, a dual-purpose battery is often used. This type of battery is neither a starting nor a deep-cycle battery but rather a compromise between the two so it performs both functions adequately.

Trojan recommended their SCS225 battery as a thruster/windlass battery, to be parallelled with T105s in the domestic bank. The SCS225 will deliver 820A at 0°C, how much more current do you think a thruster/windlass needs?

 

[tudorsailor]

I believe we had a faulty solar charger and the batteries over charged which probably boiled the water away.

...and you said why not use a solar panel to keep the batteries charged!
I do have a socket for a towed generator. I have never used it of course. I wonder if I could I plug solar panels into this socket to make life easy?

TudorSailor

 

[macd]

The SCS225 will deliver 820A at 0°C, how much more current do you think a thruster/windlass needs?

Well, our thruster's fused at 300A (which is scary enough in itself). So +1.

...and you said why not use a solar panel to keep the batteries charged!

Slight thread drift, and apologies for that, but that's precisely the reason I won't leave our 340W of panels to look after the batteries for extended periods. 20W, maybe, but the idea of leaving 25A unsupervised for months on end I find, frankly, frightening.Same with a mains charger, come to that.