Trinity House 2010 Aids to Navigation Review

[Malabar]

Hiding in my slit trench to avoid the barrage of pre-Christmas chores, I discover that Trinity House, in their 2110 Aids to Navigation Review currently on circulation for comment

http://www.trinityhouse.co.uk/aids_to_navigation/the_task/user_consultation.html

includes the baseline that "having 1 light in view is acceptable".

I for one have a few problems with that from the point of view of a non-radar fitted vessel. So how do you get 2 or 4 more position lines (other than by using depth or making a stab at a running fix) without a second light to shoot up?

I gather that the RYA is looking at a response to Trinity House. What is it that the Elder Brethren know about visual fixing that has hitherto eluded me?

 

[Stemar]

What is it that the Elder Brethren know about visual fixing that has hitherto eluded me?

Mebbe that maintaining marks is expensive and boats without radar don't contribute. In an ideal world cost wouldn't matter, but in this one it always has and always will. Sometimes they get the balance right, sometimes they get it wrong

 

[Searush]

I don't have radar, but I do have GPS - you can get a new hand held set for under £100. And, as discussed recently you can still use an RDF set or cheap radio to identify Aero beacons which should still be marked on charts. This would give a second position line if there were no identifiable headlands in sight.

How often are you making a landfall where your position is so uncertain? Even crossing the Irish Sea, I would be happy to run a bearing down on Trwyn Ddu until close enough to make the passage into the Straits using the buoys. Most lights have sectors to indicate safe areas & hazards.

 

[DaveS]

That would seem to be in line with their thinking. The bit I found interesting was:

With the exception of leading lights and “PELS”, landfall lights and passing lights are now less important and their primary function is for coastal navigation, confirmation of position and spatial awareness. Thus the “traditional” AtoN's can be regarded as a secondary but complementary system to the primary navigation system of GNSS.

Now, assuming that GNSS stands for Global Navigational Satellite System, the presumption would seem to be that if you navigate you will have GPS (or equivalent). I think that's the first time I've seen that set down anywhere "official".

 

[pennycar9]

Hiding in my slit trench to avoid the barrage of pre-Christmas chores, I discover that Trinity House, in their 2110 Aids to Navigation Review currently on circulation for comment

http://www.trinityhouse.co.uk/aids_to_navigation/the_task/user_consultation.html

includes the baseline that "having 1 light in view is acceptable".

I for one have a few problems with that from the point of view of a non-radar fitted vessel. So how do you get 2 or 4 more position lines (other than by using depth or making a stab at a running fix) without a second light to shoot up?

I gather that the RYA is looking at a response to Trinity House. What is it that the Elder Brethren know about visual fixing that has hitherto eluded me?

I think what is overlooked here is the fact that Trinity House, as the provider of lighthouses and bouyage around the coasts of England and Wales,(yes,and Gibraltar too) is not a governmental department and, as such can do, pretty much as they want within their remit.It is commendable that they do, at least consult with interested parties, and not run roughshod over them as govenment is apt to do.

Also to be considered is that there are large areas of coastline where there are no fixed lights where one can take a running fix let alone a 3 point fix in darkness.

We, as leisure boaters, contribute nothing to the up keep of the Lighthouses and bouyage system around our coasts, it is there, thank goodness, for us to use, but not for us by right, it is there for the organizations and shipping companies who contribute to maintainance of the system, by way of light dues.

In my veiw, Trinity House, provides an excellent service in providing a superb light and bouyage system, try going across the Thames estuary at night without the benifit of the bouys. Radar is not mandatory in leisure craft, but it is in commercial vessels, and I am certain this what the consultation covers when they say one light is enough. However, one light is not enough when there is fog!!!

With the advancement of electronic navigation systems on merchant shipping, it is questionable of the need for lighted aids to navigation, but as we don't contribute to the light dues, I don't see that we can jump up and down too much.
I for one would'nt be ecstatic if I had to put my hand in my pocket to help maintain lights, but I would do so if it meant I could continue to identify the Lowestoft High light or Orford Ness light after a snotty North Sea crossing. Surely a visual fix is better than an electronic fix if only for peace of mind.

 

[DJE]

So how do you get 2 or 4 more position lines (other than by using depth or making a stab at a running fix) without a second light to shoot up?

Well one of them will be distance run from your last GPS fix which you wrote in the log not more than an hour ago, didn't you?

 

[marklucas]

Visual fixes are essential

Agree with the above views that we should be grateful for that which we do not pay for.

But anyone who tries pilotage using a chart plotter / handheld GPS is asking for trouble, IMHO. With no use physical references (depth is the other one) then you are no better than a computer game player! But that falls under the remit of the harbour (to which we contribute via mooring fees etc.)

Once I was returning from Alderney - both the boat GPS and my handheld were down, so it was dead reckoning all the way. However, very comforting to pass just 500m from EC2 as and when predicted.

So thank you Trinity House.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Now, assuming that GNSS stands for Global Navigational Satellite System, the presumption would seem to be that if you navigate you will have GPS (or equivalent). I think that's the first time I've seen that set down anywhere "official".

I've never come across GNSS before but GMDSS ( Global Maritime Distress and Safety System) is the official IMO policy governing this area of big ship safety and that mandates that big ships must have GPS and indeed many other safety and back up systems. Been in effect some years and indeed was responsible for the intro of DSC VHF radio so you should have ben taught about it when you did your SRC course, assuming you have done one.

Trinity house run the lights for those paying light dues - not us. And those big ships have to have GPS.

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

GNSS

I've never come across GNSS before but GMDSS ( Global Maritime Distress and Safety System) is the official IMO policy governing this area of big ship safety and that mandates that big ships must have GPS and indeed many other safety and back up systems. Been in effect some years and indeed was responsible for the intro of DSC VHF radio so you should have ben taught about it when you did your SRC course, assuming you have done one.

I think you will find GNSS is the generic term for GPS (US owned) and other sat nav systems, in particular the European Galileo system.

 

[DaveS]

Been in effect some years and indeed was responsible for the intro of DSC VHF radio so you should have ben taught about it when you did your SRC course, assuming you have done one.

Trinity house run the lights for those paying light dues - not us. And those big ships have to have GPS.

I think there are a couple of mistaken assumptions here.

1. For some reason you choose to make an innuendo about my VHF knowledge (despite this having no relevance whatsoever to the point being discussed). I would merely state that I gained my VHF Operator's Certificate some years before the advent of DSC, do not have a DSC VHF transceiver, and hence operate quite happily and legally without either a DSC endorsement or new style SRC.

2. All three lighthouse authorities were established to provide aids to navigation, which is what they do. The fact that some benefitting vessels do not pay dues is irrelevant.

The more important point I take from the Trinity House statement is that they recognise the benefit of visual aids in assisting orientation and spatial awareness as being a valuable complement to electronic navigation. This applies to vessels of all sizes, so hopefully we will continue to benefit.