cliff
Well-Known Member
Used to use trich for refining / solvent extraction purposes - just another reason for the nanny state to outlaw it.
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alant
Well-Known Member
Trichlorethylene as well as the obvious carcinogenic hazard, was when used in degreasing plants, known
(1) to render the user unconcious, because the 'smell' vanished upon long exposure & continued un-noticed inhalation occured /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
(2) Trich fumes when inhaled via a cigarette, were converted into Phosgene (a 1st WW Trench Gas), which was even more unheathly. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Not nice stuff at all, but extremely effective as a degreaser.
(1) to render the user unconcious, because the 'smell' vanished upon long exposure & continued un-noticed inhalation occured /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
(2) Trich fumes when inhaled via a cigarette, were converted into Phosgene (a 1st WW Trench Gas), which was even more unheathly. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Not nice stuff at all, but extremely effective as a degreaser.
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
Trichlorethylene as well as the obvious carcinogenic hazard, was when used in degreasing plants, known
(1) to render the user unconcious, because the 'smell' vanished upon long exposure & continued un-noticed inhalation occured /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
(2) Trich fumes when inhaled via a cigarette, were converted into Phosgene (a 1st WW Trench Gas), which was even more unheathly. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Not nice stuff at all, but extremely effective as a degreaser.
[/ QUOTE ]According to the CDC list of carcinogens, Carcinogens the various variants of trichlorethylene are classed as carcinogens but then so are gasoline, and tobacco smoke. But don't let's stop there, other carcinogens include wood dust, rosin cored solder, nickle in all of its forms and good old diesel exhaust! So one has to put this 'carcinogen' issue in perspective; occasional use of trichlorethylene is highly unlikely to cause cancer and while it might break down to phosgene when heated, anyone who is drawing their breath through cigarettes has more to worry about than whether or not someone might be using trichlorethylene in the vicinity. As you say, it is extremely effective as a degreaser, which is why I would like to obtain a small quantity /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Trichlorethylene as well as the obvious carcinogenic hazard, was when used in degreasing plants, known
(1) to render the user unconcious, because the 'smell' vanished upon long exposure & continued un-noticed inhalation occured /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
(2) Trich fumes when inhaled via a cigarette, were converted into Phosgene (a 1st WW Trench Gas), which was even more unheathly. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Not nice stuff at all, but extremely effective as a degreaser.
[/ QUOTE ]According to the CDC list of carcinogens, Carcinogens the various variants of trichlorethylene are classed as carcinogens but then so are gasoline, and tobacco smoke. But don't let's stop there, other carcinogens include wood dust, rosin cored solder, nickle in all of its forms and good old diesel exhaust! So one has to put this 'carcinogen' issue in perspective; occasional use of trichlorethylene is highly unlikely to cause cancer and while it might break down to phosgene when heated, anyone who is drawing their breath through cigarettes has more to worry about than whether or not someone might be using trichlorethylene in the vicinity. As you say, it is extremely effective as a degreaser, which is why I would like to obtain a small quantity /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Das_Boot
Well-Known Member
Try a silkscreen printing supplier. Screens need de-greasing once you have used them to print and you have cleaned the image from the screen. It removes all residues from the screen. If I remember correctly it is alkaline maybe high strength caustic soda like drain cleaner, but industrial strength. This removes grease very effectivly.
Das_Boot
Well-Known Member
http://www.megauk.com/cgi-bin/mega/lp.pl?page=http://www.megauk.com/screen_printing.php
Have a look at the above webpage it contains degreasers solvents for inks etc.
There are lots of products on this page just scroll down and look for the type of degreaser you need. If it will remove ink it will remove just about any greese as the vehicle for the pigment is one or other form of oil.
Have a look at the above webpage it contains degreasers solvents for inks etc.
There are lots of products on this page just scroll down and look for the type of degreaser you need. If it will remove ink it will remove just about any greese as the vehicle for the pigment is one or other form of oil.
VicMallows
Well-Known Member
Had forgotten the phosgene connection. Wasn't that one of the original reasons for banning it in fire extinguishers?
Vic
Vic
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Re: Wasbenzine
[ QUOTE ]
Wasbenzine is n-heptaan (dunno what it is, I am not a chemist). The English word for it is "white gas" (refined petrol). Is it the same as white spirit?
Anyway: If it stinks or it is poisonous it's chemistry!
[/ QUOTE ]
Wassbenzine is definatly not white spirit.
i am no chemist but the smell / texture is quite different
[ QUOTE ]
Wasbenzine is n-heptaan (dunno what it is, I am not a chemist). The English word for it is "white gas" (refined petrol). Is it the same as white spirit?
Anyway: If it stinks or it is poisonous it's chemistry!
[/ QUOTE ]
Wassbenzine is definatly not white spirit.
i am no chemist but the smell / texture is quite different
VicS
Well-Known Member
Re: Wasbenzine
I have now discovered that "Wasbenzine" is a mixture : 60% hexane and 40% heptane.
Before someone says what are they then: Hexane and heptane are members of the series of hydrocarbons known as paraffins, or more correctly alkanes. You will be familiar with the first few members as they are methane, ethane, propane and butane. Then comes pentane, a liquid, just, at ambient temperatures then hexane heptane and then octane, another familiar name. The series goes on through a range of liquids of gradually increasing boiling points and eventually to a series of waxy solids.
Re the comments about phosgene. Anyone who is drawing their breath through cigarettes will probably live to do so again tomorrow but anyone inhaling trichloroethylene, carbon tetrachloride or 1:1:1 TCE vapour through a cigarette may well not do so!
Other solvents which could be used for degreasing include toluene (methylbenzene), xylene (dimethylbenzene) and mesitylene (trimethylbezene)
but they are all flammble, produce hazardous vapours and smell nasty.
Enough of all this chemistry.
If it smells it's chemistry, if it moves it's biology, if it doesn't work it's physics and if it's broken it's engineering!
I have now discovered that "Wasbenzine" is a mixture : 60% hexane and 40% heptane.
Before someone says what are they then: Hexane and heptane are members of the series of hydrocarbons known as paraffins, or more correctly alkanes. You will be familiar with the first few members as they are methane, ethane, propane and butane. Then comes pentane, a liquid, just, at ambient temperatures then hexane heptane and then octane, another familiar name. The series goes on through a range of liquids of gradually increasing boiling points and eventually to a series of waxy solids.
Re the comments about phosgene. Anyone who is drawing their breath through cigarettes will probably live to do so again tomorrow but anyone inhaling trichloroethylene, carbon tetrachloride or 1:1:1 TCE vapour through a cigarette may well not do so!
Other solvents which could be used for degreasing include toluene (methylbenzene), xylene (dimethylbenzene) and mesitylene (trimethylbezene)
but they are all flammble, produce hazardous vapours and smell nasty.
Enough of all this chemistry.
If it smells it's chemistry, if it moves it's biology, if it doesn't work it's physics and if it's broken it's engineering!
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
If I remember correctly it is alkaline maybe high strength caustic soda like drain cleaner, but industrial strength. This removes grease very effectivly.
[/ QUOTE ]You can buy 98% pure NaOH in Robert Dyass (and presumably other retail harware shops) though you have to ask for it, as you also have to do for Spirits of Salt (HCl 32% as stated on the bottle) and glues like Evo Stik. While I keep HCl on board for scale removal in particular, I don't keep NaOH because my experience over the years in a house has been that the tins tend to rust and let moisture in, leaving you with a dangerous mess. I wouldn't want to mislay a tub of caustic in the bottom of a locker.
If I remember correctly it is alkaline maybe high strength caustic soda like drain cleaner, but industrial strength. This removes grease very effectivly.
[/ QUOTE ]You can buy 98% pure NaOH in Robert Dyass (and presumably other retail harware shops) though you have to ask for it, as you also have to do for Spirits of Salt (HCl 32% as stated on the bottle) and glues like Evo Stik. While I keep HCl on board for scale removal in particular, I don't keep NaOH because my experience over the years in a house has been that the tins tend to rust and let moisture in, leaving you with a dangerous mess. I wouldn't want to mislay a tub of caustic in the bottom of a locker.
VicMallows
Well-Known Member
Re: Wasbenzine
Thanks for the chemistry refresher. Have stored for future reference. Surprising how often 'benzine' rears its head. Remember it from when painters insisted on having it in 5gal jerrycans!
Vic
Thanks for the chemistry refresher. Have stored for future reference. Surprising how often 'benzine' rears its head. Remember it from when painters insisted on having it in 5gal jerrycans!
Vic
VicMallows
Well-Known Member
So what do you find Sodium Hydroxide particularly useful for?
Vic
Vic
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
So what do you find Sodium Hydroxide particularly useful for?
[/ QUOTE ]I was simply responding to Das_Boot's recommendation that it is a very good degreaser. But it is excellent for clearing household drains now you ask!
So what do you find Sodium Hydroxide particularly useful for?
[/ QUOTE ]I was simply responding to Das_Boot's recommendation that it is a very good degreaser. But it is excellent for clearing household drains now you ask!
alant
Well-Known Member
Had forgotten the phosgene connection. Wasn't that one of the original reasons for banning it in fire extinguishers?
__________________________________________________
Not sure about the fire extinguishers, just remembered that Trich drawn thru the hot tip of a ciggy converted to Phosgene (Chlorine Carbonyl). Forget about any carcinogenic effects if breathed in - if you live, your lungs are definitely kaput.
In a past life I worked in a chemical plant making Nickel (& Iron) Carbonyls, gases/liquids & both were even more deadly. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
__________________________________________________
Not sure about the fire extinguishers, just remembered that Trich drawn thru the hot tip of a ciggy converted to Phosgene (Chlorine Carbonyl). Forget about any carcinogenic effects if breathed in - if you live, your lungs are definitely kaput.
In a past life I worked in a chemical plant making Nickel (& Iron) Carbonyls, gases/liquids & both were even more deadly. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Piers
Well-Known Member
Apologies for the delay....
An excellent replacement to Tricc... and carbon tet is made by the Wurth corporation, and is quite excellent. Cleans and then dries to nothing. I have used it on my engines and other metal surfaces for a number of years.
Web site is here Wurth Ltd and to find the product, look under Catalogue, choose Brakes/Exhausts in the left hand window, and Cleaners/Greases in the right hand window. The product is the first three listed.
Don't let the name Brake Cleaner put you off.
As I said, quite superb.
An excellent replacement to Tricc... and carbon tet is made by the Wurth corporation, and is quite excellent. Cleans and then dries to nothing. I have used it on my engines and other metal surfaces for a number of years.
Web site is here Wurth Ltd and to find the product, look under Catalogue, choose Brakes/Exhausts in the left hand window, and Cleaners/Greases in the right hand window. The product is the first three listed.
Don't let the name Brake Cleaner put you off.
As I said, quite superb.
geoffatstanpit
Well-Known Member
Re: Wasbenzine
Acetone is methyl methyl ketone so is very similar to MEK which is the solvent used in the glue for joining drain pipework. Not especially toxic but one of the solvents best kept away from certain teenagers. Carbon tet (-rachloride) used to be sold as Thawpit for degreasing clothes. It, along with trike and chloroform are now off the market for the reasons discussed.
Geoff
Acetone is methyl methyl ketone so is very similar to MEK which is the solvent used in the glue for joining drain pipework. Not especially toxic but one of the solvents best kept away from certain teenagers. Carbon tet (-rachloride) used to be sold as Thawpit for degreasing clothes. It, along with trike and chloroform are now off the market for the reasons discussed.
Geoff
uforea
Well-Known Member
I've just been using a degreaser by Loctite (made for Massey Ferguson) and although it does'nt say what it contains it smells like and acts like Trich. it's really very good.Ted
A
Anonymous
Guest
Thanks for that but Wurth don't seem very interested in actually selling their products - they are using one of those rip-off 0870 numbers that costs 10p per minute to phone** and give no prices, and no email address. Is it sold in the high street, perhaps?
**(I refuse to line a company's pockets while they leave me hanging onto the line on automated swichboards and I never ever dial 0870 - that's my hobbyhorse)
**(I refuse to line a company's pockets while they leave me hanging onto the line on automated swichboards and I never ever dial 0870 - that's my hobbyhorse)
Piers
Well-Known Member
Re: 0870
Hm, I understand the point about BT's Specialised Numbers. How about an email to Wurth making the point, and an email asking for the price?
What I can say is that they have always been v helpful when I've been on the phone.
Looking at BT's price list for these numbers, it shows 0870 to be 7.51p/minute incl VAT. BT also states the following about 0870 - "BT customers’ calls to Lo-call 0845 numbers and Nationalcall 0870 from anywhere in the UK are charged at the local and the national rates shown respectively, but different rates apply to callers from a non-BT network."
BT Specialised numbers
As an aside, I also buy their HHS 2000 spray grease. When sprayed, it comes out as a very penetrating solvent which dries leaving a very thick grease. Like Duck Oil but much more penetrating and much thicker grease.
Hm, I understand the point about BT's Specialised Numbers. How about an email to Wurth making the point, and an email asking for the price?
What I can say is that they have always been v helpful when I've been on the phone.
Looking at BT's price list for these numbers, it shows 0870 to be 7.51p/minute incl VAT. BT also states the following about 0870 - "BT customers’ calls to Lo-call 0845 numbers and Nationalcall 0870 from anywhere in the UK are charged at the local and the national rates shown respectively, but different rates apply to callers from a non-BT network."
BT Specialised numbers
As an aside, I also buy their HHS 2000 spray grease. When sprayed, it comes out as a very penetrating solvent which dries leaving a very thick grease. Like Duck Oil but much more penetrating and much thicker grease.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re: 0870
Thanks, Piers, I shouldn't really be having a dig about the phone system here anyway but living aboard we can only use mobiles and 0870 numbers are not inclusive in the basic talkplan, so that's 10p per minute minumum. 7.5p per minute is still hellishly expensive from a BT line compared with the normal rates one pays for national calls made to an ordinary number. Still, I'll get off my soapbox!
Thanks for all your input on this - I shall contact these people and order some of the brake cleaner and spray grease. I was about to buy some motorcycle chain grease which sounds similar, but will take your recommendation. Many thanks.
By the way, I am looking for a small supply of light lubricating oil such as 3 in 1 in a tin that seals properly. Neither can I find a decent empty oilcan that I can fill and store safely or any other light general oil that comes in a suitable container from the manufacturer. Every tin of 3 in 1 I have every had has leaked in the workshop and in a boat it's not acceptable. The oil is fine, though!
Thanks for your help, David
Thanks, Piers, I shouldn't really be having a dig about the phone system here anyway but living aboard we can only use mobiles and 0870 numbers are not inclusive in the basic talkplan, so that's 10p per minute minumum. 7.5p per minute is still hellishly expensive from a BT line compared with the normal rates one pays for national calls made to an ordinary number. Still, I'll get off my soapbox!
Thanks for all your input on this - I shall contact these people and order some of the brake cleaner and spray grease. I was about to buy some motorcycle chain grease which sounds similar, but will take your recommendation. Many thanks.
By the way, I am looking for a small supply of light lubricating oil such as 3 in 1 in a tin that seals properly. Neither can I find a decent empty oilcan that I can fill and store safely or any other light general oil that comes in a suitable container from the manufacturer. Every tin of 3 in 1 I have every had has leaked in the workshop and in a boat it's not acceptable. The oil is fine, though!
Thanks for your help, David
VicMallows
Well-Known Member
David,
I stand on the same soap-box as you regarding 0870- numbers. I note that in *some* phone company literature they are now being described as premium rate, along with 0845-. Particularly annoying at weekends if you are with a provider that charges nothing at weekends for any UK geographic. (ISP non-geographics I can accept-they have to make some money from casual users).
Assume you have found SayNo To 0870 ... but for others lists lots of geographic alternatives (which you can add to as you find out):
http://www.saynoto0870.com
(I know off thread, but this one has a good audience!)
Vic
I stand on the same soap-box as you regarding 0870- numbers. I note that in *some* phone company literature they are now being described as premium rate, along with 0845-. Particularly annoying at weekends if you are with a provider that charges nothing at weekends for any UK geographic. (ISP non-geographics I can accept-they have to make some money from casual users).
Assume you have found SayNo To 0870 ... but for others lists lots of geographic alternatives (which you can add to as you find out):
http://www.saynoto0870.com
(I know off thread, but this one has a good audience!)
Vic